1500 point list need input

[pachump]

1500
buiser-130
great sword-8
spangleshard-30
168
bruiser-130
wyrdstone necklace-20
sword gnobler(2) -10
160
iron guts(4) -192
bellower-10
standered-20
222
iron guts(4) -192
bellower-10
standered-20
222
bulls(3) -105
hand weapons-15
120
bulls(3) -105
hand weapons-15
120
gnoblers(20) -40
40
trappers( -48
48
lead belchers (2) -110
110
lead belchers (2) -110
110
slave giant -175
175

1495
What do you guys think, i was looking at the forums trying to find a good list, but i think this will fit my up the gut playing style. any suggestions would be great thanks guys

[Kadrium]

It looks like a solid list for the most part, but honestly at 1500 points I would drop one of those bruisers for a butcher.

Take A bruiser with the Wyrdstone Necklace and maybe Siegebreaker if you can find the points, and a Butcher with a bangstick and dispell scroll.

[pachump]

i was thinking about the butcher alot... probly a good idea. as for teh gear on my first bruiser, the spangleshard, is that really not a good item? it seems to be the best peace of gear out there.

[pachump]

how about this i added the butcher,
1500
buiser-130
great sword-8
spangleshard-30
168
butcher-130
bangstick-25
tooth nobs-10
165
iron guts(4) -192
bellower-10
standered-20
222
iron guts(4) -192
bellower-10
standered-20
222
bulls(3) -105
hand weapons-15
120
bulls(3) -105
hand weapons-15
120
gnoblers(20) -40
40
trappers( -48
48
lead belchers (2) -110
110
lead belchers (2) -110
110
slave giant -175
175

1500

[Kadrium]

Here's the problem with the spangleshard.

You're putting it on a T5 model.

A Str3 hit wounds him on a 6. The Spangleshard will never save this wound.
A Str4 hit wounds him on a 5. The Spangleshard will save this on a 6.
A Str5 hit wounds him on a 4. The Spangleshard will save this on a 5. At this point the two items are even.

The Wyrdstone Necklace will save all of these on a 5.

If you put Toothcracker on the bruiser, the Spangleshard ceases to save str 4+ hits, and is only even with the Wyrdstone on Str6+ hits.

Poison hits auto-wound with no actual "to wound" roll. The Spangleshard will never save this wound.

The Wyrdstone Necklace will save poison wounds on a 5.

The Spangleshard only gives a *better* chance to save on a Str6+ wound, and never saves wounds that are caused with no actual "to wound" roll, i.e. "automatic" wounds. The Wyrdstone Necklace saves on a 5+ always all the time for everything that allows a ward save, thusly being able to save automatic wounds.

The Wyrstone necklace costs 10 points less than the Spangleshard.

Unless you'll be facing an army that puts out a *LOT* of Str6+ hits, the Wyrdstone necklace will always save more wounds than the Spangleshard for less points.

Drop the Spangleshard, and put Look-Out gnoblars in both your irongut units. Deploy your Bruiser and Butcher in those units to protect them from shooting and cannonfire/Stonethrowers.

Drop the tooth gnoblars. They really are not worth the points. If you cast your spells with 2 dice, the roll of 2 (two 1s) is a miscast anyway, and if you cast with 1 die the tooth gnoblars are only helping you with 2's. Thats 5 points that you sacrafice before the cast and only helps 1 out of 6 times. Assuming you cast with 1 die.

Use the points to buy your bruiser a Luck gnoblar for a re-roll of his new 5+ wyrdstone ward save.

[pachump]

that makes a lot of sense. thanks  , i tend to play against dwarfs, they have alot of cannons that like to aim right for my general, and giant. but for every thing els the necklace seems to work better on. would the stone be good on a butcher? or is the level 3 bound spell a better way to go? i will be fighting wood elves, dwarfs, dark elves, and chaos korn mainly.

[Olaf Sunsmasher]

The bangstick is always the right choice

[Kadrium]

Since you mentioned you play against dwarves a lot, it's worth noting that 1 butcher against dwarves may not tend to get a lot of spells off. You're fielding 4 power dice and 1 bound spell against a base of 4 dispel dice plus 1 per runesmith. Not to say that butchers are no good vs dwarves, but against dwarves and dwarves only you may consider two bruisers as you had listed first.

If you field a butcher, go with the bangstick. If you field a bruiser, I'd not waste points on the spangleshard. Put a siegebreaker on one of them though. You roll weaponskill vs. initiative to hit, so vs. dwarves you pretty much always hit on 3s, and it makes your bruiser's Str an 8, so he wounds basically anything in the game on a 2+, and -5 to the armor save means even dwarves with gromil armor are saving on a 7+.

As a side note, vs. dwarves a slavegiant may not go over too well. He's gonna draw a lot of cannonfire being a large target. They can hit him from anywhere regardless of terrain for the most part, so he'll probably get cut down pretty badly. His main advantage is his terror, but dwarves almost universially have a 9 or better leadership, so it's not worth nearly as much as you'd like. I'd probably consider a slavegiant against dwarves as 175 wasted points that would be better spent on more ironguts or naked bulls to screen with.

It all depends on what your dwarf opponent tends to field. If he goes with lots of mortars or less shooty lists, the slavegiant may work out well. if he never fields a runesmith, a butcher with a bangstick will tend to get off a spell or two here and there. If he fields a lot of cannons and runesmiths, forget about the butchers and giants and just play a heavy-handed army with lots of hard-hitters.

I dont have a lot of experience with elves and chaos myself, so someone else would have to give you some advice there.

[pachump]

as far as the slave giant goes i think that he is good even if he gets focus fired because he is pretty much the cheapest unit i will have on the field and if he at 6 wounds dies, that is not a big deal because that is better then having a unit of IGs flee from shooting effectively taking them out of the game. it is a big distraction, and if he can get into close combat then they will wish they had shot him more... if that makes any sense.