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help requested for a league... the next step?

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DarthSpader:
ok, well ive tried posting this on some other forums, and not much luck or help.

created an account here, hoping for some more ogre specfic advise and such.

anyway, onto the meat'n'bones of things.

my league just finished the first month at 500 pts, and we are progressing to 1000 pts. comp is pretty much normal, with the exception of needing 50% core. (for now... trying to get it changed to the normal 25%) my list for 500 was

butcher, ironfist
6 ogres, ironfist, crusher, standard
10 gnoblars, trappers
2 mournfangs
= 485

so for the next level im pretty much commited to making a huge arse block of ogres, so im going to add another 9 to the squad. with the attached butcher it makes a 15 man brick. (in a 6 wide, 2 deep, and 3 in the last rank) ill probally expand this to 18 at the 1500 pt level (just cause i like hordes)

heres what im thinking...

option 1:
upgrade butcher to lvl 2, add ruby ring. +60
+ 8 ogres to squad, (making them 14 strong) +256
+ 3 lead belchers - 129
upgrading the mournfangs to make 1 a champ w/ brace of pistols, and the unit with hev armor and ironfists = +36
 makes my total 966 not sure what else, aside from maybe a cheap weapon or armor for the butcher.

option 2....

add the 8 ogres + 256
add a thundertusk for +250

making my total 991
i get the feeling a thundertusk would just RAPE anything i face, and be an awsome help for the mournfangs, wich right now are getting shot to pieces. having a big distraction would i think really help them out. plus the ASL aura is WIN. + a bolt thrower, stone thrower and a str 6 KB attack just make it awsome... i think?

option 3...
the bulls (to keep my core up) +256
add a firebelly with great weapon 129
a unit of 3 lead belchers 129

puts my total to 999

option 4.... ?? who knows? (i have ironguts, iron blasters, tons of bulls and gnoblars, more mournfangs, a tyrant, bruiser and a few other things)

so far the issues ive noticed:
- the mournfangs are getting shot to pieces without much issue. vrs the beasts, they did ok, chased a few units off the table (flee charge reacts), the skaven just BAKED them with warp lightning, and the chaos did the same with fireballs. i either need to get them better armor, more of them, or something else to distract and take some hits.
- linked to the above, my magic phase STINKS. usually i get useless spells, and then its throw 6 dice at it, either miscast or get dispelled then done. i need a way to increase my damage output in the magic phase, and get more versatility on my magic.
- ive also noticed people stay away from my bulls, and just retreat. the gnoblars do nothing but get shot or magiced apart, (as people are now wise to the whole trapper trick) thus my bulls end up chasing something around, untill it gets dual charged then i loose on combat rez. i figure boosting them up to horde size will not only increase survival, but maybe draw fire from the mournfangs, and make them live a bit longer. plus ill do better on my combat rez. the second part to this, is entire LACK of ranged support. i have nothing to do when the other guy just backs off and avoids me. gotta have a way to inflict some pain at range. (plus those big bricks of mauarders, bloodletters, clanrats etc are a pain at full power....)

so um....help?

Sazel:
Well... First of all, I'm sorry you're stuck with the 50% core comp. That just kinda sucks a bit lol... luckily we have rather decent core.

Out of the options you've posted, I dunno if I'm really huge into any of them, but at least I like the addition of leadies. At 1,000 points they'll be able to chunk apart the smaller units more easily. IMO at least :P ... I'm also thinking that you need another mournfang; two just doesn't seem to last long, but at 1k you can't fit in a fourth comfortably yet. Plus, I don't see any Sabretusks in there, either, and that will help with the harassing, as well as boxing your opponent in for the Bullhorde to get in and get ugly ;)

Oh, and I'd say don't give the mourn champ BoP, it's really not worth it persay since the unit's goal is to get into a good combat asap. But that's just my thoughts on that.

So, another mourn, plus HA and IF, that'll be 90pts... 8 Bulls for the 256, 3 leadies for 129, and that still has room for a Sabretusk at 21, and 4 points to spare :P another gnoblar perhaps? WAIT...

When you add in the league, are those units set in stone? IE at 1500 you have to have everything from your 1k list? Just a random thought. If so, idk if I'd put the 4 spare points into gnoblars, since they'd be lost into that unit for the rest of your league.

Either way, I hope this helps give some guidance. I like where you're going with this thus far, simply give those bulls some support chaff and they'll do their job nicely :)

DarthSpader:
yea. what we have at previous levels has to be present at the next. wargear can change, and units can get bigger, but not smaller.

also, was terribly misinformed about this, but aparently the comp is:

lords/heros up to 25%
core 50% minimum
special up to 25%
rare up to 25%

the increase in core and nerfing of specials REALLY hurts... as leadies and MFC are both tough there. the models i have available are:

- tons of bulls and ironguts. with assorted full command groups. (hooray for magnetized arms!)
- total of 8 lead belchers
- 4 mournfangs
- 2 ironblasters
- 40 gnoblars
- tyrant
- bruiser/bsb
- 3 SM/butchers
- 1 thundertusk
- 1 gorger

the reason i went with the pistols on the crusher was, A: that 24-28" range i might pick off one or 2 guys and make an easier job since im not charging. and if i get charged, a stand and shoot might get 1 and make life a touch easier. plus ive encountered the "run away and let the MFC chase me around" tatic. shooting while i move to corner helps.

played a test game with the thundertusk today. he didnt take a wound, and managed to MULCH a 12 man maurader horseman unit through shooting, then a charge next turn, he then also managed to kill about half a brick of chaos warriors, and make them flee. that ASL aura is pure gold when mournfangs are there to help, and the high toughness and high wounds means he can take a good hit.

did some crunching: and...

if i add 6 ogres (192 to make a 12 strong unit = 404) + gnoblars already = 454
then add 20 more gnoblars for 50 makes my core 504pts (30 gnoblars stand and shoot at a charger + DT tests.... possibly the most awsome anti horde unit possible? - at the very least a good flank denial as ppl will move to avoid, and generally try NOT to charge them - effectivly shutting down a flank and protecting the bullstar unit)
(using 242pts)
add the thundertusk - 250
upgrade MFC w/ HA/IF for 20
= 997 total.

MaanNaam:
I think upgrading the MFC with HA and IF is the first thing you need to do.  That 2+ save is invaluable on them.

Next I'm thinking you will be better of with 2 medium sized units of ogres for you core instead of 1 big unit.  In small points games mobility and maneuverability is very important.

Here is your current list:
butcher, ironfist
6 ogres, ironfist, crusher, standard
10 gnoblars, trappers
2 mournfangs
= 485

I'm thinking maybe make the butcher Lvl 2.  Add another unit of 6 ogres with full command (bearer/muso/champ).  Upgrade the MFC with HA & IF.  Add in an Ironblaster and add 2/3 lone sabretusks with remaining points.

So my list would look like this:
butcher, lvl 2,  ironfist
6 ogres, ironfist, crusher, standard
6 ogres, ironfist, crusher, standard
10 gnoblars, trappers
1 lone sabretusk
1 lone sabretusk
2 mournfangs w Heavy armour, Ironfist
1 Ironblaster


That gives you 7 units running around on the table.  It gives you 3 dead deployment drops (sabres and gnobs) to put down first to see where your opponent's units are standing.
It gives you 3 able fighting units and a cannon backed up by 1 of the strongest chariots in the game.

If my math is correct (don't have army book with me) that list should come in at around 980 points, so you can bump up the gnobs to get that last few points needed for 50% core (this list stands at 480ish of the needed 500).

DarthSpader:
hmmm. i like the idea of the "dead" drops... problem: i dont own any sabertusks, and no GW here. only indie retailers, and they wont order. all they get is what GW sends, and they cant order from the website, and neither can i.

I REALLY like my ironblasters. they tend to blow up rather frequently, but when they dont, they put some pain on... plus it would be a nice hard counter in case someone cheeses out and deploys something like a thundertusk or whatever.

the only concern i have with splitting the ogres up, is the local meta tends towards massive hordes. (50 mauraders, 100 skaven, 50+ skeles etc) the static combat rez alone beats me unless i manage to get really good results on my impact/stomps. im not too woried about being flank charged or otherwise out manouvered, but getting a small unit of ogres charged by 50 flail weilding MoK mauraders ends VERY badley for those 6 ogres. even with a bunch of LoTM buffs in place. the thinking here: i need something to even that playing field. so a counter horde, and something to compensate and erase my low init, and thus going last. eventually im putting the dragonhide banner on my MFC, so it cant go on characters right now, (plus thats pts to buy a bsb, etc - and a bsb with dicipline banner is also a purchase in the planning) wich leaves: the thundertusk. deployed in behind or adjacant to the MFC will afford him some protection from being mobbed, gnoblars cover the other side, and the bulls in the middle should keep him fighting head on, and that ASL aura really levels things out. (bloodletters not so scary now!)

not rejecting your idea, i definitly apreciate the input. just providing more info on local meta and whats going on game wise. i definitily might see about converting some sabertusks up and use them as a harrasing or aid to the gnoblars.

with those 20 pts, why not get a magic weapon or something for the butcher? like the hellheart or simaler?

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