Author Topic: Archive - Ogre Kingdoms vs. Vampire Counts (Read 15280 times)

The Ultra-Mega Bob · « **Reply #200 on:** Jun 24, 2011, 12:52:22 AM »

Ah, sorry I just assumed (herein lies the problem...) that it worked the same way as other multiwound weapons. That'll teach me to be so assertive!

MeatHook · « **Reply #201 on:** Jul 08, 2011, 06:28:21 PM »

Hey, can a Black Coach absorb enemy power dice?

Sandals · « **Reply #202 on:** Jul 08, 2011, 07:10:38 PM »

Yep. Annoying, isn't it...

MeatHook · « **Reply #203 on:** Jul 08, 2011, 07:23:23 PM »

Yup. Just making sure, thanks.

IMTHINKING · « **Reply #204 on:** Sep 14, 2011, 02:46:04 AM »

Mournfangs are the anti-Ghoul unit.

Which lore would people advise in putting on a secondary Butcher against VC?

Mad Makka · « **Reply #205 on:** Sep 20, 2011, 12:03:42 AM »

The lore of the great maw is so useful for augmenting your units that you needent bother, two buthers with such just double their potential and if you can slam your best unit into the vampire generals unit with a thundertusk in support you can munch through his unit to kill themthrough combat res. A horde of skeleton or suck is easily countered with a ogre horde that can still crank of enough attacks to ruin them. It may if you dice are bad or below average take two or three combat phases but, while augmented its only the vampire that can really do anything to the ogre unit.

If you did want to use another lore of magic i recomend the lore or fire with a firebelly due to it destructive potential.

Sazel · « **Reply #206 on:** Sep 29, 2011, 07:43:09 AM »

Another suggestion would be Hellheart to try and pop his characters.

Anyone know of a decent way to deal with their new monster (skellydragon or terrorgheist)? I was talking with a VC player and he was excitedly telling me everything they can do, and from what I heard, idk what we have that can deal with those things (especially if they have the vamp lord/ghoul king on them

).

MaanNaam · « **Reply #207 on:** Sep 29, 2011, 08:26:46 AM »

Quote from: Sazel on Sep 29, 2011, 07:43:09 AM

Another suggestion would be Hellheart to try and pop his characters.

Anyone know of a decent way to deal with their new monster (skellydragon or terrorgheist)? I was talking with a VC player and he was excitedly telling me everything they can do, and from what I heard, idk what we have that can deal with those things (especially if they have the vamp lord/ghoul king on them ).

IIRC that dragon thing aint so tough. it can definitely do some damage, but I'm sure it can't take that much. A few good old fashion IG's should do the job, and then it's just the char left to worry about.

Salt Gut · « **Reply #208 on:** Sep 29, 2011, 11:09:14 AM »

Quote from: Sazel on Sep 29, 2011, 07:43:09 AM

Another suggestion would be Hellheart to try and pop his characters.

Anyone know of a decent way to deal with their new monster (skellydragon or terrorgheist)? I was talking with a VC player and he was excitedly telling me everything they can do, and from what I heard, idk what we have that can deal with those things (especially if they have the vamp lord/ghoul king on them ).

Just shoot it with an Iblaster

MaanNaam · « **Reply #209 on:** Sep 30, 2011, 09:07:25 PM »

If ogres can survive the charge from blood knights, then they can win against blood knights. Big units and stubborn. if you have that against VC in general then you should be fine.

The new Maneaters works wonders against them. Now at 50 points a pop AND it comes out of our special slot, where blood knights comes out of rare (i think). Give them poison and stubborn and just have enough IG backing them up.

Only VC lists I can see that could be problematic for us (tourny all comers lists) is a heavy ghouls+raise/hex list or a black bus list.

Flogger · « **Reply #210 on:** Oct 01, 2011, 07:59:21 AM »

Terrorgheist is a pain, usually supported by a Varghulf (to allow the gheist to march). They can scream at a unit, they roll 2D6+their remaining wounds (6 to start) and remove your leadership, that's how many wound you take without armour saves allowed. So they roll 13 on average with full wounds, a Stonehorn has Ld8, so it takes 6 wounds. This can very much kill single things like thundertusk, stonehorn, gorger, single characters, sabretusks and is a real pain.

I like using maneaters with brace of pistols with scout and poison and banner of eternal flame. That way they can set up last and are always set up opposite large monsters, such as hydras, abombs and so on. Even the terrorgheist has a 6+ regen which is ignored by these guys.

Ard Boy · « **Reply #211 on:** Oct 01, 2011, 12:50:26 PM »

when I played against VC recently, my IG pretty much walked trough his centre ( wiping out a big unit of skeletons and a horde of ghouls). The only thing I hadn't an answer to was his fully pimped Black Coach; it was a real pain in the ass. I feel like OK don't really have something against "ethereal".

Mad Makka · « **Reply #212 on:** Oct 02, 2011, 11:32:15 AM »

Black coaches are always a real pain, but they can be delt with. The best and easiest option is to bring it down like any old monster before it turns etheral, ironblasters, IG's, manesters, ogre characters with great weapons or sheer wait of numbers in terms of attacks or/and shooting. After it turns etheral then u really have to zapp it with magic or try to win out in combat through combat res (ranks, flank, rear, banner) or if u've got a character with a magic weapon then thump it

Yhetees are also a great option as their attacks are magical

Fathead · « **Reply #213 on:** Oct 04, 2011, 07:41:48 AM »

I only went up against a Terrorgheist once but it wasnt very impressive, looks amazing but I took it out with 25 gnoblars.

His rubbish rolls helped lol.

Question though - when it uses its 2d6+wounds-Ld attack is it against the units leadership or can you use the Generals if in range?

If you have to use the units regardless of how close we played it wrong and it is a bit tougher.

Sushichef0 · « **Reply #214 on:** Oct 16, 2011, 06:51:32 PM »

Quote from: Fathead on Oct 04, 2011, 07:41:48 AM

I only went up against a Terrorgheist once but it wasnt very impressive, looks amazing but I took it out with 25 gnoblars.

His rubbish rolls helped lol.

Question though - when it uses its 2d6+wounds-Ld attack is it against the units leadership or can you use the Generals if in range?

If you have to use the units regardless of how close we played it wrong and it is a bit tougher.

I'd say that the unit uses it's own leadership as the generals leadership can only be used in tests.

Game against Vampire Counts next weekend. Enemy is probably going to throw 2 hordes of ghouls at me so I have 2 units of 6 IG and 1 unit of 10. The biggest unit has got the flame banner and the other smaller one has firebelly and other one has Bragg. So I hope to get to say a quick bye bye to their regeneration banner.
I'll also be fielding a thundertusk and run it with my main attack to make enemy strike the same time as me.
Meanwhile I'll try to sneakily run my Ironblaster to their flank and blow them to tiny pieces of guts.
I also have a slaughtermaster (w/ Maw lore),Tyrant and BSB in my biggest unit hoping to draw some fire.

What do you guys think about this. Would my plan work in any way or should I change up my list a little?
PS. It's a 3000pts game.

MaanNaam · « **Reply #215 on:** Oct 16, 2011, 09:28:00 PM »

I don't think bragg is such a good idea for ANY army, even less against VC. He's only good in challenges, and the problem with that is a decent VC player won't accept challenges with his characters. he will accept with his champ, bragg will kill the champ. Then the VC will raise the champ back (along with few other models) and he will just accept with the champ again.

IF he doesn't have a champ to accept with, then he will just deny and have one of his characters move out of combat.

As far as I'm convinced you should aim to kill VC characters outside of challenges.

datalink7 · « **Reply #216 on:** Oct 17, 2011, 07:42:32 PM »

Quote from: Fathead on Oct 04, 2011, 07:41:48 AM

I only went up against a Terrorgheist once but it wasnt very impressive, looks amazing but I took it out with 25 gnoblars.

His rubbish rolls helped lol.

Question though - when it uses its 2d6+wounds-Ld attack is it against the units leadership or can you use the Generals if in range?

If you have to use the units regardless of how close we played it wrong and it is a bit tougher.

Well, that's partly your opponents fault. 25 Gnoblars should never kill it because 25 Gnoblars should never be engaged with it (if he charged the Gnoblars, that was a waste on his part).

Brork Bonegut · « **Reply #217 on:** Nov 08, 2011, 01:48:05 AM »

I tied my last game with vampire counts. His blood knights ended up not doing much, as Hellheart blew all but 1 away, sucking the Vamp lord into the warp. all of his ghouls were gone, but we tied because he spent an immense amount of points on his grave guard deathstar, and thus I could not kill enough to get the VP difference for a win.

rothgar13 · « **Reply #218 on:** Dec 13, 2011, 06:21:38 PM »

All right, VC is one of the regulars in my gaming club, so I'll share my experiences here. The bog standard VC list usually has reams and reams of Ghouls, a big Horde of Regenerating Grave Guard thanks to their BSB, multiple Vampires (at least one of whom is a L4), a Varghulf, some Wraiths, and a Terrorgheist. Let's address how to deal with these in turn:

Ghouls - Die a horrible, horrible death to Mournfang Cavalry. I've seen 40 of them die to 4 Dragonhide Banner 'fangs in a single turn.

Regenerating Grave Guard - This is the heart of his army, and the best way to rip it out is via fire. They have no real answer for that. Hence, a Firebelly in a big unit of Ironguts (or buffed Bulls) is the way to go. Remember to either combo-charge or bring big numbers in the face of this unit, because they hit really hard and (thanks to the Banner of the Barrows, and/or the Helm of Commandment) they are insanely accurate.

Multiple Vampires - Given that each Vamp is forced to be a caster and that all sorts of nasty things happen to Vampires once the General dies because of their Ld being so bad, the Hellheart is their worst nightmare.

Varghulf - Tough to pin down thanks to his mobility, but at the end of the day he's only a Gorger with above-average WS, Hatred, and Regeneration against us. Put him up against some Ironguts and watch him die.

Terrorgheist - Ironblasters (yes, plural) are a must to deal with this guy, because he can do some serious damage to Ogres with his Shriek, thanks to our mediocre Ld. He is priority #1 to get off the table.

Wraiths - The Dragonhide Banner's breath attack is magical, so Mournfangs with that should handle them. Failing that, have a magic weapon handy.

Vampires' casting strategy can also be tough to deal with on non-Hellheart turns, so just remember that he probably will get something off - just make him work for it. All things considered, though, I think the Vampires are one of our more favorable matchups.

Phazael · « **Reply #219 on:** Dec 13, 2011, 07:21:27 PM »

VC is a powerful army in the right hands, but it falls woefully short against Ogres. Pop Hellheart on the key turn and charge sabre into the crown guy's unit and you can pretty much roll them on the key turn. They really suffer without their magic to back them up in combat and (if you are like me) wide access to flaming attacks derails one of their best units. Ghouls can be problematic, if you lack the Cat Cav, but a single butcher in their path is often enough to stuff the whole unit.

One unit Rothgar did not touch on is the combat knight unit, which comes in Bloodknight and Deathknight flavors and often sports three characters. This unit can be an issue, due to the characters and its general mobility. Depending on how your army is set up, Ironblasters, Maneater Pistols, or a solo Tyrant might be the order of the day here.

Tobgoblin · « **Reply #220 on:** Dec 13, 2011, 09:52:30 PM »

Quote from: MaanNaam on Oct 16, 2011, 09:28:00 PM

I don't think bragg is such a good idea for ANY army, even less against VC. He's only good in challenges, and the problem with that is a decent VC player won't accept challenges with his characters. he will accept with his champ, bragg will kill the champ. Then the VC will raise the champ back (along with few other models) and he will just accept with the champ again.

IF he doesn't have a champ to accept with, then he will just deny and have one of his characters move out of combat.

As far as I'm convinced you should aim to kill VC characters outside of challenges.

Accepting Bragg's challenge with a champ is a bad idea though since if the champ dies the enemy unit in base contact with him becomes disrupted. Against ogres as VC you have enough troubles keeping up with the combat resolution without losing your static combat res.

Against things that crumble Bragg is actually quite good. Most of undead units dont want to accept the challenge with a character in fear of the HKB. If he accepts with a champ the unit will most probably become disrupted and have a huge overkill score against them. If he declines the more killy character have to move out of combat. Against TK and VC is probably where Bragg shines since they need their combat res.

Against big blocks of skaven it gets even worse.

ShootingPhase · « **Reply #221 on:** Dec 13, 2011, 10:58:06 PM »

solo charging heros from Ogres are the biggest cock blocks that can be faced by VC. I solo charged my BSB in a critical turn against a death star of vamps and GG, and stalled that block till the point where his army was smothered and crushed and his star was left floundering at turn 6.