How to not horde ogres?

[Ironclad Ogre]

My group of friends and I have been playing warhammer for a year and a half now.I have been playing ogres for about a year,but I have one problem.I cant win any games,or even come close,if I don't run an iron bus and a character wall with support.When I do I usually do very well and win most of my games.I even destroyed the "best" player at our local games workshop,but ever time I try to use non-horde it ends horribly.My units are smashed apart without doing much damage.So what do you recommend for a list build and what are some tips that can help improve my non-horde strategy.

[sitaavanu]

Most common opponents and point level?

[Phazael]

The key to MMU (units of 8-9) is liberal use of stubborn.  This lets you bait out a mass charge and hold everything for a devistating counter charge.  Stubborn Maneaters and a Crown in another unit will let you hold the line and counter.  The other option is to load up on redirectors (Gnobs and Sabers), but that is trikier to execute and can cause some panic tests, in the case of the Sabres.

[Ironclad Ogre]

We usually play at 2500 and my most common opponents are temple bus lizard men,brets, daemons,beast men,dark elves,and wood elves.

[Mercules]

With MMU it is not so much list building as getting the play down. I can give tips though.

Unit Sizes: I aim for 7-8 which when I add characters brings me closer to 9. I run them 3 wide and push the characters towards the front to reduce wounds on my small units.

Unit Type: I bring Ogres and Ironguts. The parry on the Ogres will even them out with the Ironguts with units of this size and they cost a lot less allowing you to bring more. You still want IG to smack some of the tougher things out there.

Characters: My characters are usually defensively built to take the hits. Bruiser BSB with 4+ Ward Save, SM with Fencers Blades, Glittering Scales. I bring one offensive character though in the Firebelly. I say offensive in that I am aggressive with him as he is carrying the Hellheart and I want to be in my opponent's face.


ummmm.... the rest is hard to explain.

Tips:

Use Sabretusks the turn you move into certain charge range so that you can get close enough to be secure in getting two of your units into a single big one of his.

SM gets Great Maw for the area affect buffs.

Don't be afraid to charge an Ironblaster in alongside a unit of Bulls. If it looks like on average your Bulls are going to tie the combat, tip the scales with an Ironblaster or some other support unit(not Gnoblars!). Because of this I tend to hover off to one side of my other untis with the Ironblaster and pick targets that will allow me a charge if needed.

Mathhammer is your friend. Most of your fights are going to be close and I think that is why you do so well with a Horde where it is just overwhelming and rarely close. MMU will make a lot of combats rather close to even and so you will need to know when you need that extra push from a spell or support unit to push it towards your favor or when you should hold back a turn and wait until the advantage is yours.

[Nihmwit]

Maw and beast are also very helpful for this type of army; the multiple range of buffs working out to be extremely complimentary.  A lvl 4 with Maw (to let him make use of the healing attribute) and 1 or 2 lvl 2s with beast is my preference.  Even a single lvl 1 taking wissan's wildform can make a huge difference.  If you get Kadon's transformation or Anraheir's blessing of the blender (+3 attacks, +3 strength, boost it for all characters) then you're golden.

An opponent will often be faced with dispelling Wissan's wildform or Trollguts, and will typically only have the dice to kill 1.

If you don't think you're likely to face artillery, a Thundertusk is great here too.  Allowing your ogres to strike first and your ironguts to strike simultaneously makes an immense difference.

[MaanNaam]

2 nice fighty units with stubborn (6-8 maneaters with firebelly stubborn + other rule and a unit of 7-9 IG with general and BSB with crown)

I find it helps running your units 3 wide when not going horde for that few extra ranks, it could help fight against steadfast.

Leadbelchers are more usefull than most people think, run 2/3 units of 4 along with your 2 main fight blocks and maybe a smallish (5-8) block or 2 of bulls.  That along with your Ironblaster and a few sabretusks should give you a nice choice of deployment and placement options.

Look for your combo charges and your support charges (stubborn helps with this)