Leadbelchers

[Fool]

I have been thinking of buying 2 more boxes of leadbelchers so I can field 3 units with 6 models each, but then I started to do some calculating.

Leadbelchers have BS3 and a range of 24", shooting at ST4 with Armor Piercing.

At units with models with a toughness of 3 a unit of 6 leadbelchers will (at long range) inflict on average about 4,5 wounds a turn. At short range it will increase to almost 7 wounds.

Shooting at toughness 4 targets the same leadbelcher unit will only inflict about 3,5 wounds on average at long range and 5,25 wounds at short range.

Previous experiences with Leadbelchers is that most shots will be done at longe range (targets more than 12" away)

With their relative high cost Leadbelchers will have a tough time getting their points back by shooting alone.

My questions are; is it worth taking them for shooting only and should I rather charge them as soon as the enemy is in short range?

If a unit of 3x2 Leadbelchers charge toughness 3 troops and hitting on 4s they will inflict 2,5 wounds on impact hits, 6 wounds in cc and 2 wounds stomping, totalling 10,5 wounds assuming all get to attack at their initiative 2 and at least 3 gets to stomp). A few leadbelchers might die during cc before they get to attack though, lowering the total amount of attacks and wounds.

Its hardly worth it to shoot at big blocks of infantry at long range and at short range they do more damage if they charge. Is it not better to take normal ogres instead? They are cheaper, better protected (with 5+ armor and a parry save)?

Any insight how you use your leadbelchers (if you field any at all) would be very welcome.

[sitaavanu]

DanielKing seems to be the local expert on leadies.

But in short, always shoot.  it may be less upfront damage then charging it BUT you are not taking return damage, step back and shoot, step back and shoot.  Try to use sabertusk and small units of gnoblars to buy you more rounds of shooting.  Widdle your opponent down till you can charge in and break them in one round of combat.

Heaven's casters also syergize well with leadies so trying to fit him in would also benefit you.

[Auere]

I am becoming more and more impressed by my leadbelchers performance. I run two units of 5-6 with musicians.

I find that they are just devastating to elite infantry and knights from range, and they can really hold their own in close combat aswell. 10-12 leadbelchers really put pressure on the opponent to come to you, which helps getting the right match-ups. They help control the battlefield.

In addition, I find it very easy to get them on close range with move-and-shoot. Which means that the enemy could be looking at 20something s4 AP HITS on his units per turn. Not shots - HITS!

In my last game, the leadbelchers wiped out two whole units of DE infantry and basically won me the game.

Leadbelchers do not need to kill their points worth if they are preserving their points and giving you a huge tactical advantage in superior shooting.

[grey templar]

The point of Leaddies isn't to kill enemy units entirely with shooting, its to damage them to the point where your combat units can finish them off.

The only things leaddies will kill are enemy chaff and elite units like Knights or Swordmasters.

against large blocks of infantry, they will simply take some ranks off. This is good too.


You just can't rely on leaddies to do all the heavy lifiting as they can't do that.

[Nihmwit]

I haven't gotten to play with multiple units of leadies (but I want to!), but I amost always include a unit of 8 with a musician.  The above posts hit it on the head: the lead belcher's purpose is to annihilate chaff, redirectors, and to soften up enemy combat formations.  They're also a vicious handful for other ranged enemies.  Against the elves (high, wood, and dark), my leadies will typically at some point engage in a ranged fight with the other side's archers/crossbows, and will win more often than not.

[danielking4812]

GT has it down. The point of leadbelchers is to weaken units up so you can make sure to win combat. Also, remember: behind the gun is an ogre. You're basically paying 13 points more for D6 shots a round, and you sacrifice the ironfists. It's a great trade in.

Also, with leadbelchers, it's not easy to always look at averages, as the range of shots they can do is very high. With 6 leadbelchers, you can do anywhere from 6-36 shots, although usually I end up getting in the 17-24 range with each unit.

In my standard army I run 3 units of leadbelchers, 2 units of 6, 1 unit of 4 in a 2x2.

Some tips from experience:

-Unless it's ABSOLUTELY crucial, don't attempt a swift reform unless your within bsb, and to be safe, general, because if you fail, you just lost all of your shots.

-Don't be afraid to charge into a unit that they are likely to win against. It's 3 S5 impact hits, 18 attacks, and 3 stomps varying, so it's not to be messed with so easily.

-Shoot at units that

1) You're about to get in combat with,

2) That they're effective against, and

3) Single models. Usually they'll be protected, but every wound counts, right?

-If you're about to be charged by a unit that they can't win against, make sure they're all within 12 inches of the enemy.

-Finally, a trick- if you're about to get flanked charged by a unit, leadbelchers are great for making sure that they don't have 2 ranks of 5 or more models, so then you still get your rank bonuses.

Overall, a extremely points effective and great unit that I would recommend.

[danielking4812]

Oh and did I mention that they add -2 to armor on shooting? Yeah, great against high armor, like WoC. Any one of those models that you can get rid of is good!

[Shadowlord]

The point of Leaddies isn't to kill enemy units entirely with shooting, its to damage them to the point where your combat units can finish them off.

The only things leaddies will kill are enemy chaff and elite units like Knights or Swordmasters.

Amen!

I use them for that exact reason.

[Auere]

Also, with leadbelchers, it's not easy to always look at averages, as the range of shots they can do is very high. With 6 leadbelchers, you can do anywhere from 6-36 shots, although usually I end up gettin in the 17-24 range with each unit.

I had 6 leadbelchers in a tower shooting at a unit of witch elves at long range. The first turn I did 13 wounds to them. The second turn I did 2 wounds. That is how leadbelchers are :-)

[Tozon]

Agree with all the above.  I normally use 2x6 with musicians and find that they are always solid.  Saying this they are rarely MVPs however.

[Fool]

The point of Leaddies isn't to kill enemy units entirely with shooting, its to damage them to the point where your combat units can finish them off.

The only things leaddies will kill are enemy chaff and elite units like Knights or Swordmasters.

against large blocks of infantry, they will simply take some ranks off. This is good too.

That is what i have been thinking to.

DanielKing seems to be the local expert on leadies.

But in short, always shoot.  it may be less upfront damage then charging it BUT you are not taking return damage, step back and shoot, step back and shoot.  Try to use sabertusk and small units of gnoblars to buy you more rounds of shooting.  Widdle your opponent down till you can charge in and break them in one round of combat.

You won't always have redirectors to protect your leadbelchers. So I'm still split between the two choices of shooting at the enemy and being charged (losing your impact hits) or charging the enemy.

But, I guess it will depend on how tough the unit is heading towards me and how big it is. To slowly chip away the models in the unit and time a charge when the unit is small enough so the leadbelchers can handle it in CC.