All this talk of "My ironguts never lose" really confuses me. Do you people just not play against competitive lists? And flanks being guarded by gnoblars and kitties? Those units vanish to a stiff fart, unless you're taking so many that they are no longer cost-effective.
All this talk of not playing against good players or compettitive lists annoys me a little bit. I am sure it is not intended as a slight, but my list is build and intended to support my Irongut block so that it does not lose combat and I do see myself as a good and competitive player.
And yes those gnoblars and Sabretusks vanish to the units I put them in front, because that is what they are supposed to do. By sacrificing them I direct the movement phase. And I take 3 units of Gnoblars, one of 20 with trapper upgrade and two units of 10 run naked. I use the manditory 3 Sabretusks as well.
Nurgle chosen with a blessing or two wade through ogres with ease, and so do high elf great swords (whatever they're called). Pheonix Guard will tarpit ironguts for the rest of the game. Heck, one of the more amusing things to see is watch a similarly sized unit of regular bulls (but with great character support, given how much cheaper the bulls are) shred those much vaunted irongut units.
Heavy armor is largely worthless compared to most of the enemies that are going to be thrown against ironguts. The strength 6 can be very worthwhile, but the WS 3 and ASL are huge penalties as well. Any army that can take the lore of beasts or shadow can overcome most of the ogre advantages. I think most players are still just adjusting to fighting new ogres.
That is my point. Those Nurgle, Elf elites, or regular Ogres are not fighting my Ironguts, they are fighting my characters and champion, the Ironguts give str 6 support attacks and +1 LD to my general. Since my characters are fighting in the front and taking the hits, I do not care for ASL, nor for the flimsy 5+ AS of my guts.
Dice do happen....but is it going to happen often enough, and in combat, to make the crown a 1+ choice? No.Well, that's just a matter of opinion. Is 35 points too much to spend to essentially protect a 1000+ points unit from basically certain death? It might not happen every game but when it does, it's worth its weight in gold.
Then again, I'm a cautious sort of player. I don't like leaving things to chance any more than I have to. I have back-up plans for my back-up plans.
In my opinion and in the way I play my list, yes 35 points is too much, since my BsB is built to stay alive in the thick of battle (sword of striking, enchanted shield, talisman of endurance), my Slaughtermaster also as well as staying alive for risky casting (Fencers blades, Greedy fist, Earthing Rod) and my firebelly is not in the unit but supports my Leadbelchers (Ruby Ring, Dispel scroll). I have use of these items I give my characters in almost every game I play so I do not see the reason to switch those commenly needed items for an item I might have need for in an odd game now and then.
Part of player skill is having a backup plan when things go bad.
And ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure so to speak.
I do not wholy agree. Player skill is creating a back up plan on the spot quickly enough to change the setting against you in your favor. And I do not consider having a stubborn character or unit a back up plan. If I would spend points on a stubborn unit, I would want to use that ability in my tactics and in every game I play. Such as the Maneater unit MaanNaam mentioned earlier in this discussion. Throw it in the enemies mids as soon as possible and keep them fighting and pinned up while I kill of the rest or hit his flanks or rear.