Is Terror so Terrible??

[Wildcard]

hi all,

In contemplating changing up my ogre lists for the seemingly now inevitable mirror-match, I began to think once more on what could undermine ogres. 

For all of us who have been playing the old book, we know that leadership is a big part of that - one of our main weaknesses.

That being said, things that target leadership can be very painful for ogres to deal with.  In 8th, with the heavy influence of the BSB in most armies (especially our own), targeting enemy leadership has dropped out of fashion outside of the doom and darkness spell.  But maybe it's time it came back?

Ogres cause fear.  Everything in our army, outside of gnoblars, causes fear.  We don't take fear tests....but when we face terror causers, we have to.

Under ETC comp (which my next event is using), mournfangs and ironblasters are 0-3 combined, and ironblasters are 0-1.  Under these restrictions, my theory is: drop the ironblasters.

In the mirror match, ironblasters have only one roll: shoot the opposing ironblasters!  With me facing a maximum on 1, I've decided to change tack.....and take double stonehorns!  I'm still taking 3 units of mournfang.

Added to this, I'm giving a firebelly the terrifying mask of Eee!

With 3 terror causing units, I can force fear tests from fear-causing opponents, and the stonehorns are rather resilient to cannon fire too. 

This got me thinking, it's not just ogres.  The new Demi-griffs are being considered as the answer to ogres by many people....but failing a fear test from them can really hurt their plans.  Also, with people not taking terror causing units so much, I find that people are forgetting that simply declaring a charge with a terror causer forces a panic test, and that using this to redirect charges can be a winning move.

So, is terror terrible, or could it be my new best friend?

[MaanNaam]

Well my O&G unit of orcs ran away from a stupid ghost torpedo when he charged them because of terror.

It's true that terror has lost some of it's appeal since 7th, but it's by no means useless.  I know my ogre army doesn't like testing for fear.  And the fact that you have to test EACH CC phase can really push up your bloodpresure. 

I believe terror is one of the things everyone just simply disregarded when reading about the changes without ever really tested it.  Kind of like fear, but I've found my fear has helped me more than just a few times in 8th ed.

Go for it.  Test your theory and report the results.  (How else does one prove/disprove the theory of terror being useless?)

Good luck

[Zolas]

Would be quite interested in knowing how you get on too.  As much as I love Ironblasters I also love stonehorns as well!  So go for it!   

[D'rthock the Insatiable]

Double stonehorns sounds terrifying (stupid pun intended).  In all seriousness, I think it would work well against another ogre player.  It's always comforting to know other fear units won't bother my ogres.  To have to face 3 terror units though...it certainly works well in playing mind games with your opponent.  Hell, I'd emphasize the point as you deploy and watch him mull over what that means.

[grey templar]

Terror is still very useful against enemy flankers and indeed anything outside of BSB/general range.

The possability of making the enemy flee, especially if its a smaller unit that a lone Stonehorn could handle with ease.

Just make sure there is an enemy you could possably redirect into.




One tactic I have seen with Stonehorns is to have a Sabretusk nearby. If the unit they charged Flees you could have the Sabretusk, after the Stonehorn has redirected elsewhere, charge the unit that just fled and make them flee another 2D6.

I saw a Batrep where a Chaos Warrior block fled from a stonehorn, got charged by a Sabretusk, and subsequently ran all the way off the board.

[Mercules]

I would say it could work, but in doing so you might want to up the ante a bit and take a Slaughtermaster with the Death lore and Sniping Maneaters.

1. Both the SM and Maneaters could work on removing your opponent's Leadership Bubble by killing off the BSB first and General Second.
2. Death gives you a shot at Doom and Darkness which when combined with removing the Re-roll can make it very likely that a unit might flee from your Terror or Fail their Fear.


This could be a very scary surprise for those at the tournament.

[grey templar]

And combine Doom and Darkness with having a Sabretusk nearby to make them flee twice it could be very nasty.

I may try this sometime.

[Wildcard]

It would mean paying the butcher tax and, under etc comp, I think it also means having no scroll, hellheart or rune maw banner.

Would be nasty though!

Sabretusks combine well with stonehorns as they are faster and won't panic the stonehorn if the cat gets shot off (due to stonehorn frenzy).

With 2 stonehorns and 3x2 mournfang on the table, there will be precious few places to run to!


A bullgorgered or toothcracker'd stonehorn is really nasty.   Wildform on one would be nuts!

[Lexy]

So don't use the greedy fist.
If the SM only uses death, there is no penalty in Dispell dice.
You can have a scroll and the banner
You may think about grut's sickle.
with the 4 dice casting of death, the +2 may be extra help.

I'm afraid my army won't be ready to have all the options.

[Wildcard]

I was running greedy fist on my slaughtermaster before the FAQ made the death combo legal.  I love it for the S5 it gives the slaughtermaster. 

Good call though...dropping it for death might be a way to go.....but I think I'd miss the firebelly I'd have to give up to the butcher tax too.

[Wildcard]

Thinking more on this....


In this build, with the mournfangs and the stonehorns, maybe a SM on beasts would be a good idea?  If I still wanted the greedy fist then 8 S8 attacks (fencers blades and savage beast) is still on. 

Also, 2 magic missiles in the lore could still allow the targeting of lone mages with the greedy fist.  One of them can make up for the lack of ironblasters too.

The frontline of characters all under savage beast becomes a beatstick on insane proportions.

Wildform on any of the monster or cavalry is disgusting and the curse makes trappers better and can tip combats with that -1 to hit.

The more I think about it, the more tempted I become...sneak past the comp and still have the tricks.

Thoughts?

[grey templar]

I am definitly going to try some of this on Saturday.

SM with Beasts, 1 lvl2 with gutmagic, BSB and a cheap Bruiser for characters. Then go wild with my Stonehorn and kitty kats.

I might even be tempted to put the wailing banner on my Mournfangs instead of the DHB.

[Lexy]

I think beast is almost on par with gutmaw, with the difference of the butcher tax.

If you play, don't forget the bonus on mournfang while casting lore of beast

[sitaavanu]

Against thoughtless players who put low leadership units outside of general/bsb range Terror is pure win.  Against a general who only lets ITP or high leadership models outside of general/bsb range Terror is 100% pure luck to determine it's usefulness.

Not useless but very circumstantial.

[Wildcard]

I am definitly going to try some of this on Saturday.

SM with Beasts, 1 lvl2 with gutmagic, BSB and a cheap Bruiser for characters. Then go wild with my Stonehorn and kitty kats.

I might even be tempted to put the wailing banner on my Mournfangs instead of the DHB.

Let me know how it goes

Not every army can keep everything in bubble except ItP and high leadership.

Ogres
Beastmen
Orcs and goblins
Bretonnia
Skaven

Can all struggle with that.  It's match-up dependent, butitsanother tool.

[sitaavanu]

I am definitly going to try some of this on Saturday.

SM with Beasts, 1 lvl2 with gutmagic, BSB and a cheap Bruiser for characters. Then go wild with my Stonehorn and kitty kats.

I might even be tempted to put the wailing banner on my Mournfangs instead of the DHB.

Let me know how it goes

Not every army can keep everything in bubble except ItP and high leadership.

Ogres
Beastmen
Orcs and goblins
Bretonnia
Skaven

Can all struggle with that.  It's match-up dependent, butitsanother tool.

Just remember

Ogres - the whole army causes fear so terror doesn't exist against them
Skaven - they have enough tools that most terror causing models will bite the dust before ever being truly effective + thier rank to leadership means they don't have poor leadership most of the time in my experience.

O&G, Beastmen & Bretonnia - solid tactic

[Mercules]

Against thoughtless players who put low leadership units outside of general/bsb range Terror is pure win.  Against a general who only lets ITP or high leadership models outside of general/bsb range Terror is 100% pure luck to determine it's usefulness.

Not useless but very circumstantial.

Thus my suggestion of Death and Sniping ME to bring about those circumstances.

[Mercules]

Ogres - the whole army causes fear so terror doesn't exist against them

Not true. Terror does exist and trumps Fear. Go make a bunch of Fear tests with your Ogres and see how well they do.

[sitaavanu]

Thus my suggestion of Death and Sniping ME to bring about those circumstances.

Ogres - the whole army causes fear so terror doesn't exist against them

Not true. Terror does exist and trumps Fear. Go make a bunch of Fear tests with your Ogres and see how well they do.

For the first part I wrote a large article about deathfisting about a month ago where I explained this as the purpose and backbone of how to play.  I agree it is a solid tactic and if this is what WC is looking for it's defiantly viable. 

But that is still only fear it's not terror, big difference between changing your charge reaction to running away when you don't want too and having WS1 for a single turn.

[Mercules]

Yes, sitaavanu, but Wildcard's whole premise behind his army was he could force Fear tests on Fear causing enemies, such as his mirror match, with the terror. It is in his first post. So saying Terror doesn't exist against Ogres is ignoring his premise.

[Wildcard]

My main worry would be losing the Firebelly.....I've gotten used to being able to easily deal with regen...but I guess it's less common than it used to be too.

I still think that beasts on the slaughtermaster could be a good idea in this rush list....but that hellheart would need to make it in as well.  We'll see.

[Flydd]

If going with beasts on the SM you may want to add defensive gear to him as you will lose the healing ability from the Maw lore attribute.

[Wildcard]

Standard kit of fencers blades, glittering scales and greedy fist.  Doesn't get hit or wounded often.  The toughness boosts from 2 of the beast spells will help him too.

[Torga_DW]

I just thought I should point out that although potentially useful against some living armies, terror will have little to no effect on daemons and undead. You may want to keep them in mind when composing your list as well..

[Wildcard]

Damsons and undead aren't the problem.  Undead especially are a good matchup for ogres.  My only concern would be ethereal as I'd be dropping the firebelly and therefore losing some access to magical ranged attacks.