1000pt builds

[ConsumeTea]

Just wanted to know people's ideas for 1000pt builds, does not have to be a list, but a general idea of an effective 1000pt list. My league has just bumped up to 1000pts and I have no idea what to do.

[Scarr, Eating Cookies]

I always use a Tyrant in 1000 pts. A Slaughtermaster is too expensive, and I want that good LD. In my last draft I included the Helm of something-I-don't-remember that forces Characters to do LD tests. If they fail I can hit them.

I find that Combat Lords are more frequent in 1000pts actually and BSB's are less so from some armies. Therefore I like to use him just to try it. I haven't had a chance to really use him yet, but he may get helpful.

[nells]

at 1000 points, I like to use a naked slaughtermaster, bruiser bsb with the sword of striking, some ironguts, some leadies or mournfang but probably not both, and an ironblaster. 

[Mercules]

My particular 1K army is set to allow me some access to magic and a BSB. I take the BSB because the re-roll increases your chance of making leadership tests significantly more than 1 more point of leadership. Leadership 8 is 72.2% chance of making it, Leadership 9 goes up to 83.3% but Ld8 with a Re-Roll is 92.3% chance. Thus I rate a BSB higher than LD9.

So to fit in magic it is usually a naked Slaughtermaster. This grants me the Lore of the Great Maw which can make up for the lack of magic items.

I usually give my BSB a solid Ward Save and a GW and let him be the combat character as he is going to die if I lose combat and break.

After that I fit in a Sabretusk and a unit of Maneaters. Everything else gets spent on either Ogres or Ironguts depending on what I want. I've run those in one large unit or 2 smaller ones(usually Bulls split in two and IG all in 1).

My Maneaters tend to be Scouting and Swiftstrider although Stubborn could be really handy as well. There tends to be more open space on the board at 1k which means unless they spread their army out I can often deploy my MEs on a flank and charge them in fairly fast. Then the next wave of Ogres crashes in and that pretty much sums up the tactics involved in that army.

[ogreama]

To fit in a BSB and a Bruiser General, my hand is forced to go magicless. If I feel a gambling man and want magic, there is no question that a Firebelly is the way to go in place of the BSB. A 2d6 S4 breath weapon is mint in a 1000 point list. No matter what I choose, the Bruiser General is in a unit that has the Banner of Leadership.

[Mercules]

Why Bruiser General? SM fights as well and has magic?

[ogreama]

...because the SM AND a BSB are way too expensive at the the 1000 point mark.

[Mercules]

You play Ogres, right?

Our characters are expensive but durable and give our RnF troops a boost. They are worth the points.

250 on the SM and 150 or so on the BSB is not "too much" to spend on characters for Ogres even at 1K and will add in the resilience and versatility the army needs to grind other armies down. Otherwise you are spending 250 points for 2 characters that have little to no protection and do not add much to the army beyond the re-rolling Ld.

[ogreama]

...at 1000 points, 400 on characters?...no.

[poboom]

In my 1k list I've got:
1 naked SM in a unit of 5 IGs
9 Ogres
4 leadbelchers

It might not be optimal but it has plenty of wounds (and I don't have alot of models :p)

[Mercules]

...at 1000 points, 400 on characters?...no.

Awesome opinion! Got a 'reason' to back it up?

[ogreama]

My "reason" is that with only 600 points in troops, your characters will have trouble hacking through every enemy army out there which has ranks of 4 or 5 strong. Spending more points on characters takes away from troops. Every Ogre army needs those bodies to absorb damage and to dish out a ton of attacks as we mostly rely on WS3. These attacks thin out blocks of troops and allow us to win CR. I can "back this up" by saying that low LD+no BSB has usually resulted in failure with my trials throughout the years. And I can imagine other players out there as well.

CR balancing casualties + sustainable LD is the key to Ogre Kingdoms success, at any point level.

[ConsumeTea]

I agree that 400 points seems like a lot on characters at this level. I bet it would be super Killy, but I can't imagism it would survive long after multiple units charge you.

My 2 ideas I've been favouring are:

1) Running 2 level 1 Firebellies, 2 units of leadbelchers with a whole bunch of trappers and sabretusks.

2) Maw Butcher with Hellheart and Beasts Butcher. If you don't get trollguts, then take the sig for stubborn and the beasts sig for the nice buff. Take some trappers and sabretusks and then get as many bulls into a bus as possible. Or would this work better with guts and the maw banner?

[danielking4812]

My list is a lvl. 2 butcher with GW, 9 ogres with full command + log, 5 leadbelchers, 6 leadbelchers , and gnoblars x10 trappers and standard. 11 D6 shots!

[ConsumeTea]

My list is a lvl. 2 butcher with GW, 9 ogres with full command + log, 5 leadbelchers, 6 leadbelchers , and gnoblars x10 trappers and standard. 11 D6 shots!

I ran a similar list at 750pts but with a firebelly, 2x units of 4 belchers and then trappers and bits. It worked well until the Skaven player bought his Doomwheel out. Boo hiss!

Did you have bellowers in your leadbelcher units?

[Mercules]

My "reason" is that with only 600 points in troops, your characters will have trouble hacking through every enemy army out there which has ranks of 4 or 5 strong. Spending more points on characters takes away from troops. Every Ogre army needs those bodies to absorb damage and to dish out a ton of attacks as we mostly rely on WS3. These attacks thin out blocks of troops and allow us to win CR. I can "back this up" by saying that low LD+no BSB has usually resulted in failure with my trials throughout the years. And I can imagine other players out there as well.

CR balancing casualties + sustainable LD is the key to Ogre Kingdoms success, at any point level.

To address those issues let me point out the flaws in you cramming two characters into 250 points. One is naked and the other has minimal equipment and both are high value targets being your BSB and General. Either of which will likely bring about a loss in Blood and Glory if you lose them.

In addition, you are stating Low Leadership with no BSB is a reason to not go with the exact same Ld that you use in your army and a BSB? Did you read my post? SM (leadership 8 ) and BSB (which means I have a BSB). I even stated why I use a BSB as the Re-roll is much better than the extra Ld point.

I gain CR by spells. Yes, it is a bit risky but it does work. If I get additional Toughness or Regen I take fewer wounds. If I get additional Strength I do more wounds and thus more CR. If nothing Else I can make something Stubborn to hold on an extra turn and grind away steadfast.

With those two characters I can still fit in 2 units of Ogres 5 strong with IF, one has Banner and Muscian and the other just a Musician(but gets the BSB). Then 3 Maneaters with Scout and a Sabretooth. I can replace the ME with LBs I just happen to like ME and the shock value of a unit that strong Scouting and hitting on early turns.

[4 Arms]

I think spending nearly 500 points on characters in a 1000 point list is just to much.
This is roughly what my 1000 point list looks like.

Firebelly with L2, GW and ToP. 7 bulls with AHW. 10 trappers. 8 maneaters with scout, poison, 4 AHW and DHB. 1 sabretusk.

I think this list would beat almost any ogre list that had spent half their points on characters.

[tbot1990]

I am still really green here, but wouldn't a stonehorn or a thundertusk at this point range just rampage around the field? I feel like one of the big boys would do tons of damage and be hard to deal with at this low of a point range

[4 Arms]

I am still really green here, but wouldn't a stonehorn or a thundertusk at this point range just rampage around the field? I feel like one of the big boys would do tons of damage and be hard to deal with at this low of a point range

The problem with both of them is that they dont do that much damage, for the same cost you can get 6 ironguts that would hit harder and and have alot more wounds.

Saying that I love the thundertusk but in a 1000 points list I could not justify it.

[Mercules]

Lists don't beat lists...

...they give the general playing them to the tools they need to win.

Now, you will have some good solid tools to deal with other Ogre armies in your list, I have to admit that.

[danielking4812]

My list is a lvl. 2 butcher with GW, 9 ogres with full command + log, 5 leadbelchers, 6 leadbelchers , and gnoblars x10 trappers and standard. 11 D6 shots!

I ran a similar list at 750pts but with a firebelly, 2x units of 4 belchers and then trappers and bits. It worked well until the Skaven player bought his Doomwheel out. Boo hiss!

Did you have bellowers in your leadbelcher units?

I'm against funning bellowers at ld. 7, as the risk is high enough that you won't get to shoot at all and just reform.

[ogreama]

I gain CR by spells.

I'm glad that works for you. Myself, relying upon a random thing such as magic to grant me victory is not the greatest idea.

Good luck to you vs. Dwarfs.

I prefer guarantees of attack soaking wounds on the table and attacks back at my opponent, not paying the premium for "possible" CR altering magic spells getting off. To each his own I guess.

[Mercules]

I gain CR by spells.

I'm glad that works for you. Myself, relying upon a random thing such as magic to grant me victory is not the greatest idea.

Good luck to you vs. Dwarfs.

I prefer guarantees of attack soaking wounds on the table and attacks back at my opponent, not paying the premium for "possible" CR altering magic spells getting off. To each his own I guess.

I laugh whenever someone misrepresents what was said. I don't "rely" on magic, I utilize it and you don't. Every turn you throw away a potential resource after rolling 2d6 on the Winds of Magic. Unless someone has some RIP spells lying around they are just gone.

If I don't get a spell off, my army still functions. Does it do better when I get one off? Yes. Is it enough to offset the cost of having an SM instead of another Bruiser? Yes.

The big thing is that it adds an additional tactical option to the table. If you don't have a magic phase your opponent doesn't have to consider, "Hmmm... he is charging me with those Ogres, but I can win that fight... unless he gets off either of his spells. I might get them both, but if not... Dang it should I Hold or not?" I am a strong believer in making my opponent make decisions and making those decisions as muddled as heck for them. The more things they have to process the more likely they make a wrong mistake and battles are won by opponents making the wrong decision.

Yes, I can't depend on it but I like to think I am much better at thinking on my feet and changing plans midstride than my opponents which is why I can ~Utilize~ magic in that small of a battle and come out well even if it is ~Unreliable~.

[sitaavanu]

I would run this:

Firebelly, General, lvl2, Lore of Fire - 155 Pts.

8 Ironguts, M, S, Lookout Gnoblar, Standard of Discipline - 384 Pts.

2 Mournfang Cavalry, HA, Ironfist, M - 150 Pts.
3 Maneaters, HA, 3 x 2xHw, Scouts, Stubborn, M - 178 Pts.

Gnoblar-Scraplauncher - 130 Pts.

Total: 997

I have my leadership 9 (no rerolls sadly)
I can handle hordes which will take up 50% of the pts in an opponents list by outmaneuvering them with the mournfangs, and blasting them with the scraplauncher

I can put presure on an opponent from turn 1 and combo charge by turn 2.

Against mobile enemies I have magic missles and the scrappy.

And I have a ld9 bus for my general which can inflict so much pain that at 1k I should hold steadfast against all but the toughest of enemies.

I always build a 1k list from an army that I do not plan on playing (usually empire) so to put that into perspective.

Wizard Lord, Lore of Shadows - 175 Pts.

Warrior Priest, General, Shield, HA, Ironcurse Icon - 101 Pts.

29 Halberdiers, M, S, 10 Crossbowmen - 237 Pts.
29 Halberdiers, M, S, 10 Crossbowmen - 237 Pts.

Great Cannon - 100 Pts.
Mortar - 75 Pts.
Mortar - 75 Pts.

Total: 1000

Merc a list like yours would have to be something along these lines

Slaughtermaster, Lore of The Great Maw - 250 Pts.

Bruiser, Sword of Striking, Ironcurse Icon, BSB - 150 Pts.

8 Ironguts, M, S, C, Lookout Gnoblar, Standard of Discipline - 394 Pts.

3 Maneaters, HA, Scouts, Swift Stride - 162 Pts.
1 Sabretusks - 21 Pts.
1 Sabretusks - 21 Pts.

Total: 998

It's not a particularly scary list IMO, sabertusk are easily shot/spelled down I could converge my entire army (or with empire a 30 man unit) against the small ME squad and kill them on turn 1 and then all I have to do is avoid your main block or mortar/cannon it down.  There aren't enough attack angles.  Basic tactics (detachments vs tusk) (Halberds vs MEs) (cannons and mortars on the main block) eventually it will be the entire army vs 1 unit and granted that unit is scary, it's still just one unit.  And I can guarentee these match ups.

I would simply deploy in the following manner:
==B===B==
=H==C==H=
==M===M==

Or I could move the crossbows to the outside of the Halberds if that will give me a better shot at the cats either the main block is eating cannons and mortars every turn we have equal chance to cast/dispel so it should have an equivelent effect on the game, 30 halberds will win agianst 3 MEs and your only choice is to come at one of those units with a crippled IG bus.

[Mercules]

Actually my 1k list I used recently was...

Slaughtermaster (Gen)

Bruiser (BSB)
GW, HvArmor, Talisman of Preservation

5 Ogres
IF, Banner, Bellower

5 Ogres
IF, Bellower

Maneaters
Scout, Swiftstrider, HvArmor, Brace of Ogre Pistols

Sabretusk

Is it the best army build? No, but there is more than the "perfect build" despite what people say/think. There is also the "right build for playstyle" and I think I explained some of that in my previous post. This is the right build for my MMU/MSU style of play and it helps to give people OTHER options than the most popular build.