What can Ogres bring that's scary?

[rothgar13]

Hey all,

I was pondering list-building principles over on another forum, and one thing I've started to apply to my philosophy when making armies is to include things that I wouldn't want to deal with. As such, I want to talk about things that Ogres can do that would scare me if I had to play against them. In no particular order...

1. A Horde of Ogres. Horde rules for Monstrous Infantry are, well, monstrous. They really combine to form a unit that is downright terrifying to face, especially when the magic defense is up to snuff and there's the potential for buffs.

2. Mournfang Cavalry. Anything that strikes at S4 or lower dies an ugly death to them, as does anything with poor defenses (even if they have huge numbers). If you don't have the tools to deal with 'em, they're gruesome.

3. Scouting Maneaters. While I don't necessarily fear them trying to pick out my mainline characters (as those tend to be well-protected), anything that's hanging out way in the back is there for a reason - because I can't afford to protect from guys like this. I want them nowhere near my squishy stuff, and they can lay down some hurt in CC as well.

4. The Hellheart. Any army with multiple casters would do well to keep them apart from each other when facing Ogres, and armies who have casting baked into their fighting characters (lookin' at you, Vamps) should be extra-apprehensive.

So, I'd like to hear from you guys. Do you think the stuff that I've mentioned is scary? Do you agree with my reasoning? Do you have other elements of the army that you think merit mention? Any and all feedback welcome.

[markus]

Ironblaster perhaps? It has all the benfits of being a cannon that gets to roll twice and choose the highest bounce and its a chariot with a decent statline for close combat.

[grey templar]

Just a regular unit of Ogres/Ironguts.

I usually run units of 9-12 and with character support it is amazing what they can take on.


In killing and staying power a unit this size is easily the equal of even hordes. Certain units exempted, like MoK Chaos Warriors or White Lions.

With characters we have the ability to use the allocation rules to full advantage. 2 Characters can cut down the attacks hitting our RnF ogres dramatically while being incredibly survivable themselves.

a SM kitted out defensivly can absorbe alot of damage with nary a scratch. 4+/4+ saves are easy with Ironfist and Armor of Destiny and will negate tons of damage. Fencers Blades too with most enemies hitting on 5s and wounding on 5s or 6s.

[ShootingPhase]

Man eaters can perform multiple tasks set for them:

Snipe spellcasters and heros: check

Destroy enemy warmachines, monsters, chariots from a distance: check

Crush swathes of enemy warriors in hand to hand: check

The multitask use of them at range and close support makes them mvp in my book.

[Drmooreflava]

Ironguts are scary in general. The number of models in the unit amplifies this effect.

IronBlaster, yea pretty intimidating.

Gnoblar trappers cause havok vs hordes, tho they aren't quite 'scary'.

There is appliable argument for the TTusk and stonehorn to join the 'scary' category but more ironblasters and more mournfangs / iron guts is always the more competitive choice, most often the more competitive choice is the 'scariest' to face.

IMO just about everything ogres can field scares the piss out of any army that has str3 T3 core units. If anything is going to kill you past steadfast on the charge, it is a horde of iron guts or unit of mournfangs with dragonhide. Spell buffs are icing on the cake at that point.

[grey templar]

Mournfangs can also be pretty scary because you can field a fair number of them.

I ran 2 units of 4 in a 2500 point tournament and just dominated. I could have run another 4 but I only had 3 Rhinox Riders that could have filled in.

[sitaavanu]

snipping man eaters, deathfist, and hellheart.

Rip your opponents feet out from under him.

[Steam Titan]

the other nice thing bout ironblaster.. its a mobile cannon. full power canon with better grapeshot that you can move and fire

[Slaaneshy sinner]

Leadbelchers, They scare the hell out of anyone who has seen the before a unnit of 10 can get 60 shots (35 on average) just watching you pick up that many dice will worry anyone.

[Far2Casual]

Ironguts are only scary when there are 2+ characters and a Champ in them. They will get owned by many things as they drop like flies considering their price cost. But when you put some characters in there, they are forced to allocate their attacks on T5+ characters, and that's a BIG difference. But we're talking about at least 800+ points there, most combat units become scary at that point level.

Mournfangs make anyone facing them nervous, but more and more people learn how to handle them. Almost all armies have things that can hurt them pretty bad.

I would say that what scares my opponent the most lately is the Ironblaster. They just can't hide from a mobile cannon, and it's very accurate. And they can't deal with it with the usual scouts / flyers. They hate it.

[Eg Giant-tripper]

From a slightly more psychological, non-competitive, non-Math-hammery point of view, I think every Ogre army has the potential to be very scary when it hits the table. Even in 6th and 7th I've opponents balk when I'm placing my models, even when I've fielded sup-par stuff like the old Leadbelchers - in fact, especially when I've fielded the Leadbelchers! There's something about an army of monsters that will always give people the willies and unless you go heavy on the smaller stuff pretty much any given army will have enough large models to do just that.

[Hedstone]

Well on top of the items mentioned, my group of players hates the Rune Maw banner that i protect my bunker with.

[Bob the Butcher]

Deathfisting SM on a carpet would be scary if running low initiative armies.

[Lexy]

Scariest in my opinion:
scouting maneaters: a big unit with ranks basically affecting the game from deployment:
castle up and get them in your flank, go wide and most ogre units can charge and win.

multiple units of mournfang having the equivalent of 24 knights is not even a big deal for us, where most armies may struggle to get them.
and be fair: 26 points for a fear causing knight with T4 and standard S5 and 4 AND a stomp and impact hits attacks is great.

ironblaster (or even worse: 2 ironblasters)
Normally you can hide from a cannon or a cannon has to be deployed, where it'll stay the rest of the battle.
Now if you hide, you need to consider 2 times a 6 inch bubble where you stay clear from and hide from.
And ironblasters will probably shoot before you were able to shoot them.
With five wounds and chariot stats, they can get into combat as well.

Those are my scariest top 3

[danielking4812]

I mean, the rulebook says ogres are scary- they cause fear.

Also, our big special characters are pretty scary- Goldtooth- and Skrag.

[markus]

multiple units of maneaters.
having the equivalent of 24 knights is not even a big deal for us, where most armies may struggle to get them. and be fair: 26 points for a fear causing knight with T4 and standard S5 and 4 AND a stomp and impact hits attacks is great.

26 points for what now? Last I checked Maneaters were about twice that base?

[rothgar13]

Right - but 3 Wounds base means you're plenty tougher than the average Knight.

I'm actually a bit surprised about the Ironblaster. I know people fielding large things fear artillery, but I didn't really see it as a scary all-comers unit, just a very versatile and useful one. Interesting.

[Enkiel]

Horde of ogres? waste of points

the scariest part of our army imho is an Ironguts character bunkers...

When your frontage is this ;

SM T5 WS10 2+ vs Flame
Bruiser T5 WS5 4+ AS/4+ Wards
Champion

there's very little chance for your opponent to win any combat. You're not as offensive as a horde, but with 3-4 ranks (basically, just 9-12 IG + Characters), you'll win combat, break steadfast, and beat just about any units, even if they charge you.

[Snarkhunter]

Horde of ogres? waste of points

the scariest part of our army imho is an Ironguts character bunkers...

When your frontage is this ;

SM T5 WS10 2+ vs Flame
Bruiser T5 WS5 4+ AS/4+ Wards
Champion

there's very little chance for your opponent to win any combat. You're not as offensive as a horde, but with 3-4 ranks (basically, just 9-12 IG + Characters), you'll win combat, break steadfast, and beat just about any units, even if they charge you.

I agree 100% with Enkiel on this point.  While our Ironblasters and Mournfangs are good, the amount of damage a character driven gutstar can both mitigate and deliver is far more impressive. 

The scariest thing in our armies are the characters (heh, not the special characters though).

-Snark

[rothgar13]

So essentially, you're proposing a strategy similar to the Minobus, only with Ogres instead of Minotaurs? Interesting. I can get behind that, given that Ogres aren't as ragingly overpriced as Minos and fill minimum Core. I think I'd double up on the 4+ Ward save, personally.

[polybus]

I'm actually a bit surprised about the Ironblaster. I know people fielding large things fear artillery, but I didn't really see it as a scary all-comers unit, just a very versatile and useful one. Interesting.

After playing the double IB list twice against my VC friend's army and doing only 2 total wounds over the course of those games, I am rethinking the effectiveness vs points.  I think I am going to replace my second IB with a unit of 2 more mournfangs which will enable me a bonus 30 points spent eleswehere. 

[Lexy]

multiple units of maneaters.
having the equivalent of 24 knights is not even a big deal for us, where most armies may struggle to get them. and be fair: 26 points for a fear causing knight with T4 and standard S5 and 4 AND a stomp and impact hits attacks is great.

26 points for what now? Last I checked Maneaters were about twice that base?

Where did I say maneaters? I meant mournfang of course 

[sitaavanu]

I'm actually a bit surprised about the Ironblaster. I know people fielding large things fear artillery, but I didn't really see it as a scary all-comers unit, just a very versatile and useful one. Interesting.

After playing the double IB list twice against my VC friend's army and doing only 2 total wounds over the course of those games, I am rethinking the effectiveness vs points.  I think I am going to replace my second IB with a unit of 2 more mournfangs which will enable me a bonus 30 points spent eleswehere. 

IBs to me aren't about killing big monsters because most people don't bother fielding them.  I mean obviously if they do that is great for us, but the real pudding is blowing up opponents warmachines.  You have a very good chance of landing a shot exactly where you need it, then wound on 2s and only need to do the average of 3 wounds to blow up the WM.

When cannons eventually will run out of targets ours becomes a chariot and continue to contribute to the battle.

All of this is good but what really seals the deal is that standard WM hunter tactics (eagles and the like) don't work which means your opponent has almost no way of stopping it.  The only bereavement your opponent will get from an IB is poor dice rolls for shooting distance and if you blow yourself up.

[Eg Giant-tripper]

So essentially, you're proposing a strategy similar to the Minobus, only with Ogres instead of Minotaurs? Interesting. I can get behind that, given that Ogres aren't as ragingly overpriced as Minos and fill minimum Core. I think I'd double up on the 4+ Ward save, personally.

The Ogres also arguably get better support. Razorgors and Harpies are all well and good, but an Ironblaster can outright kill threats as opposed to just slowing them down.

[rothgar13]

You shouldn't be comparing the Razorgors and Harpies to the I-blaster - their functional analog in the Ogre army is the Sabretusk. I-blasters should be looking at Chariots as their counterparts in the Beastmen army (they still win that comparison, but I'm just saying...).