Slaughtermaster with Lore of Beasts - in depth analysis

[Entreri Bloodletter]

I've recently started using a list that features a SM using  lore of Beasts and I wanted to share all the lore has to offer and why I think it can be effective with ogres.

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating its the best lore but it is one that is overlooked on the SM
Disclaimer 2: I use Grut's Sickle to offset the higher casting values of the boosted spells

First off I'll go through each spell and discuss the merits of each

Signature: Wyssan's Wildform: Obviously this is the spell that most people think about when thinking about taking the Lore of Beasts.  +1 Str and +1 T is useful every turn of the game, both offensively and defensively.  Great range and really easy to cast with the +6 bonus. Great spell and should always be taken.

1. Flock of Doom - Easy to cast, cheap magic missile.  However, unless against specific opponents like elves or armies with high cost skirmishers or ethereal units there are better spells.  Situational pick but only needs 1 die to cast( last spell of phase).

2.  Pann's Impenetrable Pelt- Makes a character all but invincible, even S6 needs 6's to wound them.  Less effective against low Str opponents but that's why I gear my characters to have the best armor they can get.  In the era of death star units the bubble effect can make your whole front rank (3+ characters) practically indestructable.  I think ogres are one of the few armies to really take full advantage of all the potential this spell has to offer.  Remember that denying combat resolution is just as good as creating combat resolution and keeps you alive longer as well. 

3.  The Amber Spear- Another situational pick but pretty cheap to cast and great if you need more ranged attacks.  There's something to be said about a Str 10(for boosted cast) bolt that hits automatically and penetrates ranks. 

4.  The Curse of Anraheir - Most underrated spell in the list IMO. It deserves its own paragraph. It has fantastic range, is easy to cast and most of all the secondary effect is often overlooked.

 The spell states that ALL terrain (other than impassable) is treated as dangerous terrain.  As shown on pg 116 of the BRB open terrain is one of the 4 types of terrain and so is treated as dangerous terrain for purposes of this spell.  In addition, the unit fails Dangerous Terrain tests on 1's and 2's making it incredibly dangerous.  Now where the real synergy lies is with Gnoblar Trappers.  When an enemy charges a unit of trappers, they will take 2 Dangerous Terrain Tests, 1 for charging because of the spell, and one for completing a charge against the trappers.  Note that they will be failing on 1's and 2's for both tests.  This combo will account on average for 44% of the enemy unit dying to dangerous terrain tests!  This can cripple those large units that people are so fond of playing right now.  Just the other day I did this to a 45 man unit of White Lions who only made it to combat with 22 left- leaving them much more vulnerable to the rest of the army.   

5.  The Savage Beast of Horros-  Makes one character a complete monster in combat with at least S8 and 7 attacks ( not counting additional equipment/item bonuses).  Makes even our casters capable of destroying enemy combat characters.  But the best part is the boosted version which will make all your characters unstoppable killing machines.  With a centrally placed battle line ( or death star unit) you can easily affect 4 characters.  Assuming 4 characters are affected thats something along the lines of 28+ attacks at either S7 or S8!  Granted you will need 5-6 dice to get it off comfortably but its well worth it when you obliterate the enemy.  Another spell that ogres can fully take advantage of since even our casters get massive benefits from it.

6.  Transformation of Kadon - Usually looked at like the black sheep of the lot, its high casting value and remains in play status make it unpopular for many armies.  The usual reasoning is that you can simply dispel it and turn the fragile wizard back into human form and kill him.  Well ogres aren't fragile and I actually prefer my casters in close combat so that doesn't affect me at all. 

Looking at the monsters you can choose from a Black Hydra (strong, durable, S4 breath weapon), Feral Manticore (useful if you really need that killing blow), or the Horned Dragon ( tough, weak breath weapon).  Overall I would rate this spell as slightly below average since the other spells can give you similar stats without the drawbacks.  Exception would be if you want to go all out and go for the Mountain Chimera or the Great Fire Dragon as those are the most powerful monsters in the game.  Combined with Grut's Sickle the casting cost is not too prohibitive either. 
Note: You can turn in to a monster with a breath weapon, use it,  and later on transform back into the monster again and get another breath weapon.  Useful tidbit but not game-changing.

So there is the rundown on the spells so now lets take a look at what units benefit most from the lore.

Lore Attribute:  We probably won't be taking advantage of the lore attribute too much but it is useful for casting Wildform on Mournfangs.

2 of the spells can be cast with in bubble effects making our characters monsters in close combat.  So I would say that a centrally place battle line or death star unit is essential to utilizing every aspect of the lore. 

Curse of Anraheir should be combined with Gnoblar Trappers whenever possible because of the incredible synergy between the two so at least a couple units would be idea.  I personally am using 3 right now.

Wildform is always useful and Amber Spear is a pretty nice ranged attack ( useful for making the enemy come to you).  Both spells are useful in most army setups.

Overall, you want the enemy to come to grips with you, preferably funneling towards the center where you can take full advantage of your bubble effect spells.  To achieve this you will probably want at least some shooting to create incentive to come to close combat.

Thank you for reading, and tell me your experiences with the Beast Master!

[Scarr, Eating Cookies]

I have used a Beasts Slaughtermaster in a Leadbelcher shooting army and it worked great. The weathering my opponents units took from the Trappers, Amber Spear, Curse and such made him easy prey to my Troops when he got close. Still I think that Heavens is better here tough in most situations.

[Koroviev]

Not sure about that reading on Anraheir.  Would need to check my book and faqs. 

Reading it the other way, I considered the spell somewhat underwhelming - even with trappers - I'm not expecting my opponents to play into charging trappers with elite infantry blocks.  My group also might just not play with as much traversed terrain as others (and I could see where a game with multiple forests and other unavoidable roadblocks would make this spell more appealing).  If that is really how it's played, with open plain being dangerous, it's a much more attractive spell.

I've been considering running a 3 caster army once I have more ogres (brand new to the army).  1 beasts slaughtermaster, 1 beasts butcher, and a maw butcher with the beasts butcher aiming to get Transformation of Kadon after my SM already has his spells.  Not sure if this strategy sees much use but it seems entertaining.  2 casters that potentially have Wyssan's, and the cheaper one can turn into a nasty monster if the winds are kind to me/my opponent dispels the wrong spells.

[polybus]

I like the thought of using lore of beasts for Ogres so much so that I bought and painted a GW Chimera model.  I wish they would FAQ the curse already but most chaps I run into think its open terrain=dangerous if for no other reason than otherwise the spell is kinda pointless.  The biggest problem with the lore I think is this:  The good spells are to be cast in combat but so do our Maw spells therefore your casters will have precious little to do before combat, and while in combat, will be fighting for dice. 

[Entreri Bloodletter]

I like the thought of using lore of beasts for Ogres so much so that I bought and painted a GW Chimera model.  I wish they would FAQ the curse already but most chaps I run into think its open terrain=dangerous if for no other reason than otherwise the spell is kinda pointless.  The biggest problem with the lore I think is this:  The good spells are to be cast in combat but so do our Maw spells therefore your casters will have precious little to do before combat, and while in combat, will be fighting for dice. 

You have a good point but remember that wildform should be getting cast every turn, the toughness helps out against ranged attacks until we close in.  Amber spear is also good for dealing ranged damage until close combat happens.  Curse also helps out defensively since the -1 to hit applies to ranged attacks as well.  And if you do have a redirector in place it can help create tough decisions for your opponent- they have to choose to stay put or charge and risk losing models. 

The great thing about Grut's Sickle is that it allows for 2 die casting of (nearly) all the spells in the lore of Beasts.  This also frees up dice for your other casters to put on the pressure early on. 

[Vectis]

This lore always looks great on paper. The problem is that every game I go into with it on my SM, it's always practically useless. I think I just need to give it another chance, but I have much better success with heavens or death, or even LOTGM.

[Far2Casual]

I think the lore is great and when you get the spells you need, it is indeed amazing. I fully agree with you on the Curse of Anraeir. In the BRB "open terrain" is a type of terrain like the others, and they spell clearly indicates that ALL types of terrain should be considered as dangerous. Basically it will prevent the unit from moving, unless your opponent really is ready  to lose 1/3 of his unit. It's a great spell that gives you a lot of control on the battlefield against hordes.

The Transformation is also fantastic on a Slaughtermaster. One big problem with the Transformation is that it is a RiP spell. So normal wizards (elves or humans for example) will see their Transformation dispelled in the opponent's turn, and will then have to face a lot of attacks coming from the unit he is facing, unprotected. With the Slaughtermaster it is not really a problem, with our WS4, T5, W5. It's like we're still transformed

The problem that I have encountered when using the lore is that it is easy for your opponent to prioritize their dispell attempts, for two reasons.

1. The casting values are high, so it's rare that you'll be able to cast many spells. A good example is Wyssan ; at 10+, you take a serious risk if you try to cast it with two dices, even with a lvl 4. That would end your phase prematurely. So you probably need 3, which is often half your dices.

2. In turn 1 or 2, the Transformation, the Savage Beast, even Wyssan's Wildform need not to be dispelled. So they can focus on dispelling the Curse and the Spear (if needed).
When you are in combat, it's the opposite, because your Slaughtermaster probably is in a unit that is in close combat. Unless in specific situations where you can get 3+ characters affected by an upgraded version of the Savage Beast or the Pelt, they can probably focus on dispelling Wyssan and the Transformation. One character with the Pelt or the Savage Beast isn't probably game changing, so they can let that go through.

So in my opinion, an okay lore with many useful spells, but hard to use against a clever opponent.

[Scarr, Eating Cookies]

Basically it will prevent the unit from moving, unless your opponent really is ready  to lose 1/3 of his unit.

Actually when terrain is dangerous you only need to test if you charge, march, pursue or similar longer movements. So moving normally is still an option to avoid it.

[Speed of Zound]

if I put a Hunter on a Stonehorn does it still count as a Monster for the Lore Attribute and would even the Hunter's attacks get +1S?

[polybus]

Basically it will prevent the unit from moving, unless your opponent really is ready  to lose 1/3 of his unit.

Actually when terrain is dangerous you only need to test if you charge, march, pursue or similar longer movements. So moving normally is still an option to avoid it.

Good point.  This rule always confused me but I am finally putting it to bed in my head I hope.  The thing that is most confusing is the wording on the Venom Thicket forest which makes you take a dangerous terrain tests for even normal movement. 

[Phazael]

Curse is probably the next best spell in the lore after the default, with its great utility and massive range.  The whole lore of fits a combat based army very well, but I don't think the upgrade from Maw is worth the butcher tax.  If you are going to have two wizards anyhow, then its definately better than Maw.  The threat of turning into a mountan chimera alone is enough to make people sit on their scroll.

[Da GoBBo]

The biggest problem with the lore I think is this:  The good spells are to be cast in combat but so do our Maw spells therefore your casters will have precious little to do before combat, and while in combat, will be fighting for dice. 

So take some more herolevel casters along to cast some nasty spells early on and hopefully draw that dispell scroll before the SM goes to town. You can have a fully equiped BSB and 3 naked 2nd lv. butchers with a dispell scroll in 2400 points. Considering the buff potential from the SM that is not a bad selection and it gives you something to do with every powerdice you'll ever get. You could ditch one caster or some spell levels to invest in equipment.

You could also not worry about pulling that dispell scroll early and just take some firebellies. Have a laugh when blasting fireballs (alongside your operating leadbelchers) which will not be scrolled because of what is to come, and than have a second laugh when combat hits, you do happen to get buffs off and shower your opponent with breath attacks and lots of high strength attacks.

This involves having too many spellcasters, but if any setup can afford it and (despite WS3 casters) even flourish on having that many casters, it is an ogre army with a lore of beasts SM.

[Entreri Bloodletter]

I agree that the multiple caster setup could work, especially to have useful spells to cast while still out of close combat.  I might even go as far as having the maw butcher simply be level one to save points and just get two firebellies.  This would give a very good chance of getting flaming sword and the other spells in the list would be good against chaff that gets in the way and hordes( or steadfast blocks) which could possibly hold up our own deathstar unit. And it also puts on the pressure from turn one rather than having to wait till combat to deal significant damage.

I'm starting to like this idea, gonna try it my next battle.

[Drmooreflava]

I think Lore of beasts is slightly more offensive and risk taking because it lacks TROLL GUTS!

Troll guts has, hands down, won battles for most if not all of us. I find that beasts is a good lore, no, a great lore; however, I don't think ogres and characters (especially ironguts and mournfangs) lack any offensive power that needs to be suplimented.

I have more issues with protecting my units from magic + shooting + close combat than I have issues with putting out enough damage to win combat. Infact, Troll guts will win you combat if you pass enough regen tests and roll averagely with attacks.

Beasts also lacks to AoE that maw has with 3 of its buffing augments. Wysanns may be better on a single unit, you are guarunteed to have it every battle, but it casts on a higher value and for +2 to the casting value of wysanns you can cast a 12" aoe with bullgorger or toothcracker. The 20+ on troll guts aoe is a high shot to aim for but in a situation where you neeed a buble of protection from an insanely shooty/magically offensive enemy, troll guts is the answer to your prayers every time.

Sure if you need maximum overkill in close combat, lore of beasts is the more effective way to go. I find that lore of the gut maw is more well rounded, especially with braingobbler and bonecrusher to help clear enemy chaff out of your charge lanes. Perhaps my point is that the versatility of the lore of the gut maw in many cases out weighs lore of beasts on the scale of what your slaughter master should be running.

I will make no argument for the other lores available to us because I don't have experience using them; however I can easily see how those lores offer different options where lore of beasts is basically all close combat related with the exception of a CoA and Amber spear.

I will not address transformation of kaddon because you are asking yourself to miscast and I often see that when someone is trying to get off transformation, it is out of desperation and is the only trick left up their sleeve.

Though Troll guts is basically a "crutch for noobs" as many may see it, Troll guts is our best and most easily accessable form of defense for the big blocks that win us battles. Yes hellheart + scroll and whatever other deathfist combos you guys run are great ways to get away without troll guts and they are legitimate strategies; however, troll guts is for the simple player who builds his or her magic phase around defending units that are vital to the success of the battle. Beasts, does not offer any sort of defense except for the pelt and wysanns which fall way short compared to troll guts. Flaming attacks may be the achilles tendon to troll guts, however, It is hard to beat troll guts in every phase of a turn I often find someone has flaming shooting (Dwarfs) but they don't have flaming close combat attacks or visa-versa, still making troll guts useful. Sure the enemy can dispel troll guts, but that is sacrificing their magic phase to do it.

Any feed back on the flaws of my analysis would be great. I was meerly attempting to defend Maw as our go to lore for well rounded army tactics.

[Entreri Bloodletter]

I think that the lore of the maw runs into many of the same problems that Beasts does in regards to not being able to cast that often until you need the buffs in close combat. 

Stubborn is completely worthless until you reach combat, and even then its only insurance if you lose, it doesn't help you win.  Bonecrusher is situational at best, it has low(ish) range and has a small range of effective targets.  (High cost, low wound count models)

Bullgorger is fine, but once again you can't make use of it until you reach close combat.
 
Toothcracker I like because +1 T is never a bad thing, but Wyssans does this and +1 Str for only 2 more to cast.  And you are guaranteed to get it unlike this spell.

Braingobbler is another situational spell that because of the BSB rules is quite a bit worse than it was last edition.  Granted it can have a large range if you choose to boost it in order to catch things on the flank but overall it simply doesn't cut it IMO

Trollguts yes, is by far the most powerful spell in the lore and the one you always want to have.  But what happens if the unthinkable happens and you don't get it?  ( Small chance yes, but it has happened to me).  Then you are left with subpar spells that aren't crucial enough to draw out scrolls until its too late.  It is never a good idea to rely solely on one spell to win especially when the rest of the lore doesn't pull its weight.

Each spell is individually not bad, but the overall versatility is lacking I think.  I rarely take any maw caster if I can avoid it other than the butcher tax of course.

[nightsoul]

I have to disagree with you analysis of Curse of Anraheir. I do not think it is not the intended to work as open ground count as terrain. Consider the situation where a Night Goblin fanatic is released. In the rules it states that if the fanatic is brought into contact with terrain of any kind other than a hill it is destroyed. This would mean that the moment the fanatic is released even on open ground it is destroyed. I cannot see how this is the intention.

Can you clarify this?

[grey templar]

Open Ground is still terrain according to the rules.

[sitaavanu]

Open Ground is still terrain according to the rules.

This has been an on going debate, GW has not realeased an FAQ and there are a multitude of well backed up stances on this topic.  The only other spell with this kind of effect (TKs lore) specifically list open ground being included.

Obviously fanatics don't blow up when they are on open ground.

so rage on debaters, but the bottom line is, this will either be predetermined before playing or rolled off every game you play.

[Entreri Bloodletter]

I agree with sitaavanu that discussing it prior to starting the game is probably the best way to go. 

Fanatics should not blow up right upon contact with 'open' ground as that would defeat the entire purpose.  I think the rule should be clarified to placed terrain pieces rather than all terrain.

On the other hand, open terrain is a clearly marked type of terrain listed in the book. 

Many people I have played with don't see a problem with the Curse interacting with open terrain but it could be different in your gaming area.  Clarity should always be aimed for though to avoid heated arguments in-game.

[Frost Jotun]

Many people I have played with don't see a problem with the Curse interacting with open terrain but it could be different in your gaming area.  Clarity should always be aimed for though to avoid heated arguments in-game.

So fanatics aren't used that much where you play, or do you interpret the same rule differently?

[Far2Casual]

That's a debate I don't get. Open terrain is a type of terrain, look at your BRB. Curse of Anraeir make all type of terrain dangerous. What's the problem really ? There are other spells that work like that...

And then the Fanatic lament... Yes, the Curse is a hard counter to fanatics. So what ?

[Da GoBBo]

And then the Fanatic lament... Yes, the Curse is a hard counter to fanatics. So what ?

But that is not really the issue here. If open terrain is a type of terrain, than fanatics can't move across it without spinning out of control, curse or no curse, since the only type of terrain they can cross unharmed are hills.

I say it's a booboo in the fanatic rules, not in the terrain rules.

[sitaavanu]

it's not curse + fanatics

It's poor wording.

Fanatics state that the moment they come into contact with terrain they die.
If open ground = terrain then the moment fanatics are placed, they would die.
This obviously doesn't happen therefor we generally do not consider open ground terrain.
Another example, is the forest wood elves play in their deployment zone may not touch any other piece of terrain, if open ground was terrain than we could not place this forest.

The counter argument is obviously that open ground is listed as a type of terrain in the BRB.

The only other spell that works this way (out of TK) specifically states that it does affect open ground.  Which you would think 'if GW realized they needed to put that wording in the TK spell they would certianly add it to the lore of beast to clear up any confustion.'  However, GW has not put it in an official errata/faq which leads some people to think 'if GW specifically put that call out on the TK spell and not on the lore of beast spell then clearly they are meant to function differently.'

[Da GoBBo]

Another example, is the forest wood elves play in their deployment zone may not touch any other piece of terrain, if open ground was terrain than we could not place this forest.

Considering the woodelf book is a 6th ed. book, I'd say this argument doesn't really hold; other than that you put the problem very clear. Open ground is clearly a terrain type though, and while it is unfortunate (and most probably unintended) that fanactics cannot surivive on anything but a bare hill, it is in line with the rules. The tomb king spell is very clear, the beast spell not so much, but does it have to be that clear? It seems to me the TK spell is overly thorough, while the beasts spell is sufficiently thorough. Being overly so isn't a crime though and sufficient is just what it needs to be. It also seems fanatics and wood elf forests are just useless this edition; in a RAW sense of course, I can't imagine anyone making a deal out of it.

[sitaavanu]

he tomb king spell is very clear, the beast spell not so much, but does it have to be that clear? It seems to me the TK spell is overly thorough, while the beasts spell is sufficiently thorough. Being overly so isn't a crime though and sufficient is just what it needs to be.

If it was sufficiently clear this thread, and a similar thread on every other forum for a faction that can use the lore wouldn't crop up every couple of months.

Fanatics were written in this edition, I don't understand where you are having touble understanding that GW doesn't treat 'open terrain' the same in all their writings.

Fanatics state that they blow up the moment they touch terrian.
If open ground = terrain, than as soon as they touch the table they would blow up.
This is obviously not the intention of the rules as you would never be able to play them.

So, does open ground = terrain? are you seriously going to tell every O&G that as soon as their 75 pts of fanatics hit the table that they instantly die because they 'touched terrain'?

What gives one interpretation that it was specifically left out of curse more credit than it was accidentally left out?