Author Topic: who's using the hunter these days? (Read 1275 times)

Talonz · « **on:** Dec 16, 2011, 06:00:10 AM »

Debating a conversion...whos using the hunter or not, and in which configurations or not? with or without hunting packs?

Shadowlord · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 06:46:44 AM »

The hunter is used about 25% of my games with a pack of four.

He is a hit and miss at times, but has been able to weaken flanks and be a great support.

In other games he has died to fire, poison, and all kinds of things.

Ghunter · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 08:07:45 AM »

I've used him once in three games in a full pack of 10. The look of the unit is pretty unique! Gamewise, I found the unit not too bad, but not a steamroller either. It has no save, except for the Hunter and I think he can be targeted as Sabretusks are not his model type.

But that's a non-negligable threat to pose on a flank, especially with the Sabretusks benefitting from the Hunter Ld.
I have yet to try him on other games.

Just my 2 cents.

Johanxp · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 10:54:33 AM »

I use it everyday as paperweight and I think it is excellent (mine is in metal).

Salut!

TheTrev0 · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 02:05:10 PM »

Quote from: Johanxp on Dec 16, 2011, 10:54:33 AM

I use it everyday as paperweight and I think it is excellent (mine is in metal).

Salut!

That is what I am doing with mine ... and worse yet... I ripped his base off because a friend of mine needed a 50mm.

I began to use my hunter this way after he face planted in a Rushing Torrent river (Failed his dangerous terrain and took a final wound which killed him).

And then they add salt to my already gaping wound by making him just as useless in the new book. Neat!

Mercules · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 02:06:53 PM »

It's not that he is useless, it's that a Firebelly and BSB are basically auto-include in an Ogre army.

forgottenlor · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 02:22:04 PM »

I've used him now 3 times on the Stonehorn. I find him the most useful in a fast, close combat oriented army, where the opponent is given much time to cast or shoot. I personally prefer either the Armour of Destiny and great weapon, or Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield and (if points are left) harpoon. The Second configuration is better against cannons, the first against monsters. I've settled on the ward save, as I find keeping the Hunter alive the biggest problem. Normally this unit does not have to make break tests unless facing a combat lord.

I see it as a Stonehorn upgrade, and not as a hero unit per say. As I am not relaying on shooting or magic in this setup, I don't find losing a second caster that bad. It only works well at 2500+ points though, or else you can't fully equip the Hunter and BSB.

Enkiel · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 03:02:31 PM »

I think his only use nowadays is on a stonehorn, in big games (2500+). I personally never used him with the new book, since we never play games bigger than 2500, and i rather have Hellheart + BSB than a hunter.

Talonz · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 03:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Shadowlord on Dec 16, 2011, 06:46:44 AM

The hunter is used about 25% of my games with a pack of four.

How do you find that works for you? And how did you settle on 4 cats? Are they just ablative wounds or is it a decent combined arms fast asault unit of sorts?

Shadowlord · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 03:27:14 PM »

Settle was easy -> painted.

How they work? Well as I wrote they have been a mixed bag. Against WS3 and such they work good enough with 12 attacks at strength 4 and high INI. With the hunter they work wonderful when taking out fast cav, combo charges, and small expensive units.

When they suck is when the enemy has heavy shooting, has a great deployment - making sure my vanguard goes to waste, or has too few units to take head on. The hunter is tricky to use even if you kit him right because he is no better in the 8th terrain mindset than a regular bruiser.

Note that I also use single tusks even when the hunter has a pack of four.

Fantasyfreak · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 04:07:21 PM »

He's still not great.

I've used him in a pack of 5 Sabres, worked ok, nothing to write home about though but nice for something different.

Essentially he's a Bruiser that can only join Sabretusk and has a less than mediocre shooting attack for more points.

Talonz · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 05:05:03 PM »

Well he does have bs4 and ld 9 which makes him a better solo and shooter, and comes with the throwing spear.

So can he be picked out of the unit for shooting against or not? (im still rusty on 8th rules)

Fantasyfreak · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 06:26:58 PM »

Quote from: Talonz on Dec 16, 2011, 05:05:03 PM

Well he does have bs4 and ld 9 which makes him a better solo and shooter, and comes with the throwing spear.

If you really want to use the throwing spear you can't march.
It's only 12" range so you'll be hitting on 4's usually which isn't bad but not marching for 1 S6 that isn't MW isn't great.
That doesn't justify his extra points to me.

Having LD9 is great, but when you can't use the BSB when you're with the cats it's sort of needed.

Quote

So can he be picked out of the unit for shooting against or not? (im still rusty on 8th rules)

If the shooting attack is a template, he will not get a LoS.

If the shooting is BS based, he can not be picked out.
Instead, all hit's are distributed onto the models on the unit as chossen by the controlling player of the unit, but no model can have 2 hits on them without every model already having a hit on them.

E.G. 7 hit's are rolled against my 5 sabres w/hunter, I need to put one hit on each model (so 5 on the unit, 1 on the hunter), one is left and I can place this on the unit or the hunter.

Next turn 17 hits are rolled, I have to put 2 on the hunter and one on every sabretusk to make 10 on the unit.
The remaining 5 can be 1 on the hunter and 4 on the kitties, or all 5 on the kitties.

Talonz · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 06:45:27 PM »

Perhaps making the pack and hunter 'fast cav' while joined shouldve been the way to go...ah well.

sitaavanu · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 07:20:41 PM »

In short the hunter is a waste of pts.

On a stonehorn he eats up too many hero pts to be wortwhile as you loose out on firebelly/bsb needs for a very expensive want (plus I don't much care for the stonehorn).

As a solo he doesn't have the shooting ability to be a real threat to anything but another solo (harpoon doesn't break through ranks anymore so your basically doing 1d3 wounds to something that doesn't matter, he is nice against WMs but their high toughness makes wounding difficult and then the d3 wounds are a gamble ... not a ~200pt gamble).

Cats die in droves without offering much protection and are best used IMO as chaffing units during deployment. Many times has a lone cat stopped scouts from landing in my flanks, I don't need to spend 200+pts on that option.

Everything else can be acheived by a bruiser who is cheaper and can be geared better and put into units for survivability.

forgottenlor · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 07:29:53 PM »

Unfortunately Maneaters can do what a Hunter/Cat unit can do better. I also have to admit, I think the Stonehorn is better for the points in most cases without the Hunter, simply because in most case I'd prefer having a 2nd caster or an additional small unit (Say 3 scouting Maneaters or 2 Gorgers). Still its a playable option on a Stonehorn for me to mix things up. I wouldn't advise buying the Hunter unless you really like the model, and I wouldn't advise you to use him if you are playing in a very competitive setting.

Talonz · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 07:41:58 PM »

Yeah I keep thinking how hunters shouldve been made a unit choice...irongut stats with bs4, 1-3 hunters as a pack and the option to have cats (special) or ride stonehorn/thundertusk (rare).

I guess they just dont make the cut (still!) as a hero option.

sitaavanu · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 16, 2011, 08:13:48 PM »

Simple fix would be to make them rare, add 20pts to their cost give them the hunter only bigname standard. Give them a mount option of the stone horn. Allow for 25pts of magic gear like some armies have for their unit champions.

forgottenlor · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 17, 2011, 06:02:07 AM »

That would have been a good fix, I think. It prevents you from taking Iron Blasters, but at least you get a decent selection of character support. Why 20 points more, though? Most models that are standard selections/characters (such as the Banshee) cost more as characters, not less.

Mattino · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 17, 2011, 09:46:10 AM »

I see actually two uses for a hunter.

The hunter is best for, erm, hunting. He is actually even quite good for an early suicide attack against a bsb or a mage. Although maneaters could do the job as well, the success rate of the hunter is much higher, because he has magic items at his disposal. An excellent anti-level 4 build is greedy fist, potion of initiative, and the 5pt sword that renders the mage stupid if hit. A more general build would probably contain the others trickstars shard and the sword of swift slaying. The latter has great synergy with a group of sniping/poison maneaters to pick out the unit champ before and, if needed, to finish the job. They are, however, by no means necessary.

The second use for a hunter is as space denial. Find a strategically well located forest and park him there. Alone, he is stubborn in the forest and will not be removed by anything at least twice or three times his point cost. Use him to prevent flank charges on ironblasters, threaten yourself flank charges, lone characters, and fleeing units, or just to stand in the way and shoot. Keep him as cheap as possible - a magic shield, charmed or enchanted - is the most I'd give him.

In either case, I'd place him with a single tusk. Vanguard will get you in position; for the character hunter, swiftstride makes sure you'll hit home. For the woodsman, part the unit right away.

Tozon · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 17, 2011, 12:25:46 PM »

I have used a hunter in several games now, also with varying levels of success. I have tried out two different ways of running him:

Hunter w/ Crown of Command, Longstrider & Great Weapon (later lost Longstrider gain charmed shield)
8 Sabretusks (would have been 10 but I own 8 and wanted my chaff)
This had some great successes and also some great failings. Weighing in at a LOT of points even when it performed well it barely justified the expenditure. Using out on a flank to hunt cornered warmachines/ flankers then cutting in to be a flanker itself was my personal use and being Stubborn Ld9 meant if it got into a sticky situation it would generally be okay. This worked very nicely up until my regular opponents got canny and started placing a cheap troop block on each flank and forcing combat so I was stuck with it for most the game. Definitely a fun build (and helped win a couple of games by important flank charges) however nothing that I don't think wouldn't be better than 6x Maneaters w/ add hand weapons, std & gleaming pennant (though this is speculation - I haven't painted them yet!). If you haven't tried it give it a go as it is a very different unit and a nice immediate threat due to the speed. Give it 2/3 games however as 1 is not enough to see it benefits and drawbacks.

Hunter w/ Charmed Shield, Blade of Striking
2 Sabretusks
This is a slightly more unusual build from what I can tell and I think is quite a useful one (though as is I think common knowledge, not the most "optimal" way to spend points). This unit works as warmachine/ small unit hunters. It works as 2 seperate units, the hunters and the tusks. Basically, deploy together and get your Vanguard. Turn 1 March the hunter out the unit to set up a charge (pref warmachine/ light cav/ flank of weak troops for c-c-c-combo charge with main units T2) then march the sabretusks off seperately to either hunt similar units or act as redirectors etc. The benefit of this is that for around 200 points you get 2 units deployed in beneficial positions for charges in T2 in areas that may have been difficult to get to. May also work with 1 tusk but I like the ablative wounds gained with 2.
I have also had mixed successes with this unit (ran off board T1 once, killed about 500pts worth of warmachines/ wizards another time) but I would also recommend at least giving it a try to see if it works for you.

Overall I think they are too expensive, around 90/100pts basic they would be an option (albeit still not the best option) but I think they are a fun unit that I will keep cycling in and out of my lists as I do with most things. Not tried them on Stonehorns yet because that looks like a painting mission and a half so am interested to hear other peoples opinions of those.

Thanks

Tozon

Genestealer · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 17, 2011, 05:04:48 PM »

I took him off his 50mm base and put him on a 40mm base and use him as another unique looking Man Eater. He travels with the limited BoH Brusier, the Arabian ME, and the Paymaster.

Sandals · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 17, 2011, 05:34:36 PM »

I think there is a lot of negativity surrounding the Hunter, and I think that it is time to start looking for positives. We have a team of people pledging to use Yhettees (a unit that most people assume is rubbish) in their games, why do we not see some of the same Stronghold spirit applied to a character choice?!

There are a few really good ideas in this thread already, and I think I'm going to commit myself to using the Hunter in all his guises over the next few months, just to see what he can do. Be prepared to see some of these cherry-picked into a different thread to give some ideas!

rothgar13 · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 17, 2011, 11:22:24 PM »

The thing is, while general consensus is that the Yhetee is subpar, it still has some intriguing aspects to it, mainly the S5 on such a cheap and fast unit (M7 + Swiftstride is plenty faster than M6 for the purposes of an offensive unit, and it also has I4), which is something that's in scant supply in this army. Its problem is that you can kit Maneaters to do something similar, but do it a heck of a lot better (albeit at a slightly increased points cost). The Hunter is not much different from the Bruiser (+1 Ld is nice, but not jaw-dropping), and then is saddled with a higher points cost and unit joining disadvantages. It may be, nay, it is the most lackluster choice in the book.

sitaavanu · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 18, 2011, 08:08:55 AM »

To echo rothgar's point, the biggest point of tension on the hunter is that he brings nothing new to the table that can't be covered for less (bruiser) or more efficently (MEs). Why settle for a mediocre choice that eats up valueable hero points when you have those other options available?

And I say 20pts more because he would have Beasthunter bigname standard (which I think they should have anyways but apparently GW felt that we needed to pay for this). Oh and his bolt thrower should still be able to penetrate ranks!