Author Topic: Greedy Fist Wizard sniper (Read 4986 times)

Warp Spider 833 · « **on:** Dec 12, 2011, 02:41:57 PM »

Ok, so the new FAQ is out, and with the changes to the greedy fist, everyone is thinking of using it with a death butcher for sniping wizards with caress/bjuna.

For the benefit of those who have not read the FAQ yet, the greedy fist can now be used on all attacks, not just cc, so a death sniper spell that does 2D6 hits, is going to mess up any wizards day, very fast.

What build would be best for going down this road? I was thinking:

Slaughtermaster
Level 4 (Just to be sure to get one of the required spells)
Greedy fist.
Fencers blades (for combat)
Glittering scales (now that we officially can).

Hellheart may not also be a requirement now, as this build should kick wizards down fairly efficiently.

Mercules · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 02:47:06 PM »

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to proclaim this "teh uber".

Janushedemann · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 02:54:37 PM »

Is that build legal points wise Spider?
Seems to expensive ?

/J

kobahl · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:01:09 PM »

Quote from: Janushedemann on Dec 12, 2011, 02:54:37 PM

Is that build legal points wise Spider?
Seems to expensive ?
/J

Yep. Exactly 100 points

Janushedemann · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:04:51 PM »

Ahh yes

Warp Spider 833 · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:32:45 PM »

Its actually getting really good use out of all the parts of greedy fist: The strength bonus as he's geared for cc, the 6+ ward for eating weapons every now and again (as he probably will be in challenges), and the wizard stopper.

He can also do other stuff: he has all the other advantages of being a death wizard, just now two of the spells are now waaaay more useful...

You do need to pay butcher tax tho. Not that a few buffs will be a bad thing...

grey templar · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:35:53 PM »

Hmmm, I might consider this at Ard Boyz. Lvl4 with Maw, Lvl3 with death and Greedy Fist, and then the beast Backup caster.

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did this in a freindly game. i already feel bad for curb stomping at the local friendly tournament(that I brought a fairly hard list to and everyone else brought fun/themed lists)

Gutlord Inquisitor · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:36:12 PM »

Looks funny. Problems with it:

1) You're going to have a discussion with EVERY new opponent as to whether "ranged attacks" was meant to cover spells.

2) You still have a Death Level 4. Other than sniping wizard levels, nothing in the Lore actually does much for ogres. Soulblight is one of the best spells in the game, granted, and Doom and Darkness is neat. Psun is risky as all hell but very nice for things like steam tanks. Still not as utilitarian as a level 4 gut or heavens I feel.

3) You have to pay the butcher tax.

I think a level 2 death cook with greedy fist and two hand weapons might be a better buy. There are several death snipes. Or just take the greedy fist on a bruiser/tyrant with BoH and settle for popping a shot off at greater daemons and other lone casters.

Necrotix · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:38:27 PM »

Dump him in a Bullhorde or Gutstar with our now much more useful Rune Maw for an excellent "Eggs in one basket" Alderaan destruction vehicle!

Mercules · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:43:27 PM »

1. Yeah... I've thought about that. The FAQ raises another question... as usual.
2. Doom and Darkness is incredible for Fear Tests.

3. Eh... not THAT huge a deal, but yeah.

Actually I think a level 2 should do fine as Spirit Leech should help get the job done but getting either Caress of Laniph or Fate of Bjuna will set him up to seriously mess up most Wizards.

kobahl · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 03:58:24 PM »

Quote from: grey templar on Dec 12, 2011, 03:35:53 PM

Hmmm, I might consider this at Ard Boyz. Lvl4 with Maw, Lvl3 with death and Greedy Fist, and then the beast Backup caster.

I have to agree with GT here. At Ard Boyz I can say Yeah! Let's be dirty and play in the mudd!!

At ANY other level it's just feels way too nasty......

Gutlord Inquisitor · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:01:35 PM »

Weirdly, at Ard Boyz, it seems entirely fair. Give those dark elf builds what for!

Still won't help out with Teclis if he's hiding with the World Dragon. Neat for Kairos builds. (Does that remove a level from each head?

)

polybus · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:11:58 PM »

When I read this thing in the FAQ four letters came to mind OMFG!

Warp Spider 833 · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »

Quote from: Necrotix on Dec 12, 2011, 03:38:27 PM

Dump him in a Bullhorde or Gutstar with our now much more useful Rune Maw for an excellent "Eggs in one basket" Alderaan destruction vehicle!

This is exactly what I plan to do...>

A level two is an interesting thought: it would be more efficient (by far), but there is only a 1/3 chance that you'r going to get any spells that makes your greedy fist worth it.

As for the debate over 'ranged attacks', I would argue that a ranged attack is any attack that does not happen in cc - mainly magic and shooting. The FAQ does not say any 'shooting attack'. The old gut magic stacking was far more dubious than this, yet we all still used it...

Also Magic is so abused that curbing it so effectively seems like justice.

kobahl · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:15:29 PM »

Quote from: Gutlord Inquisitor on Dec 12, 2011, 04:01:35 PM

Weirdly, at Ard Boyz, it seems entirely fair. Give those dark elf builds what for!

Still won't help out with Teclis if he's hiding with the World Dragon. Neat for Kairos builds. (Does that remove a level from each head? )

Hey GI. Does the world banner have to go on a BsB or can the unit itself take it? If the unit then yeah I would agree. If on the BsB, well...that's when you call in your snipers....

Gutlord Inquisitor · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:23:10 PM »

Quote from: Warp Spider 833 on Dec 12, 2011, 04:12:25 PM

A level two is an interesting thought: it would be more efficient (by far), but there is only a 1/3 chance that you'r going to get any spells that makes your greedy fist worth it.

It's actually much higher because any double you can choose a spell. I worked out the odds, if you have a level 2 and there is ONE specific spell you want, then the odds are exactly 50-50 you'll get it. But in this case you have two so that's higher still you'll get one or the other.

That raises a question - does Spirit Leech inflict "hits"? It inflicts wounds directly.

Quote

As for the debate over 'ranged attacks', I would argue that a ranged attack is any attack that does not happen in cc - mainly magic and shooting. The FAQ does not say any 'shooting attack'. The old gut magic stacking was far more dubious than this, yet we all still used it...

Also Magic is so abused that curbing it so effectively seems like justice.

LOL the OK propaganda machine is gearing up again. Standing and shooting with Ironblasters has been shut down but "It's not cheesy to greedy fist snipe because..."

Quote from: kobahl on Dec 12, 2011, 04:15:29 PM

Hey GI. Does the world banner have to go on a BsB or can the unit itself take it? If the unit then yeah I would agree. If on the BsB, well...that's when you call in your snipers....

LOL yes it's on a BSB - you're right! We call for the Ogre Sniper Squad! Frankly, you could just go for Teclis directly and solve that little problem.

To be honest, the trick with both death snipes and conventional snipers is going to be actually drawing LOS to the bugger. I know I'd hide Teclis like crazy.

Mercules · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:24:15 PM »

Quote from: Warp Spider 833 on Dec 12, 2011, 04:12:25 PM

The old gut magic stacking was far more dubious than this, yet we all still used it...

There was nothing dubious about it. The errata cleared up everything preventing it from stacking and the spells were never RiP.

Warp Spider 833 · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:35:07 PM »

Quote from: Mercules on Dec 12, 2011, 04:24:15 PM

Quote from: Warp Spider 833 on Dec 12, 2011, 04:12:25 PM
The old gut magic stacking was far more dubious than this, yet we all still used it...

There was nothing dubious about it. The errata cleared up everything preventing it from stacking and the spells were never RiP.

It wasn't exactly dubious, but I doubt that was the intention when the faq was released. It was a jumble of rules and FAQ statements that resulted in gut magic stacking. It's a similar situation here - if it had been intended, then it would have stated that it could be used for magical attacks - not that unintention makes it illegal.

Personally though, I will only use this for competitive games (Like ardboys). It's an incredibly powerful ability, and I would rather not give Ogres a bad name.

Enkiel · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:40:57 PM »

imho ranged attacks <> spells.

Greedy Fist + Fencers blade + Glittering Scale is still very nasty tho.

Cleavelander · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:44:22 PM »

Well, if nothing else it offers a unique modelling opportunity. I'll be converting an ogre to have a green glowing fiery fist like Shang Tsung. Then each time that he eats a wizard level I can proclaim "Your soul is mine!"

Gutlord Inquisitor · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 04:48:14 PM »

An ogre bruiser (or firebelly!?) that looks like Heihatchi would be awesome. Yes, that's got nothing to do with this thread.

Leenus · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 06:59:39 PM »

I think it will be a strong, helpful build, but by no means the total solution.

Unless you're within 12 inches, it's 1 spell that can snipe levels (so dispell it!) and if you're within 12, you do NOT want burjana going off in most cases anyway. It certainly makes death better, but no where near as amazing as shadow.

Alanir · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 08:01:15 PM »

I'm going with the firebelly instead, especially in a closed-list format. Making Fireball a must-dispel for Tzeentch disk riders, lone Slaan, Screaming Bell rats, and Greater Daemons is just too good to pass up. In addition, it's guaranteed (no subtraction based on T or S, spell selection) and non-invasive for the lists I've already made.

Gutlord Inquisitor · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 08:03:08 PM »

If you're aiming for greater daemons, disc riders, etc., I'm still leaning towards a tyrant or bruiser with BoH. Can't dispel a handgun to the face! Makes more use of the fist beyond stripping levels - I already run tyrant with the Fist, just a case of decking him out with handguns.

Lexy · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 12, 2011, 09:13:35 PM »

Quote from: Gutlord Inquisitor on Dec 12, 2011, 08:03:08 PM

If you're aiming for greater daemons, disc riders, etc., I'm still leaning towards a tyrant or bruiser with BoH. Can't dispel a handgun to the face! Makes more use of the fist beyond stripping levels - I already run tyrant with the Fist, just a case of decking him out with handguns.

Uhm, I'd say Ironblaster and not brace of handguns.

The biggest problem we have in my opinion is level 4 casters with auto destroy spells: gateway, pit of shades (shadow is taken alot) and death.
As soon as they are nullified it's basically go forward and get into a fight.