Hunter on Stonehorn

[Enkiel]

it's a given that when a cannonball hit a ridden monster, both are hit. But i've been reading our army book entry on hunting beast, and now i'm wondering....

...and any shooting attacks against the model will hit the stonehorn on a D6 of 1-4, and the hunter on a roll of 5+

is it basically for anything that isnt a template?

[Sandals]

I think it's one of those things that could use an FAQ. If you take both the rules independently, they are both pretty clear, but we don't really know how they interact.

[Cleavelander]

Where 2 rules say contradictory things, the pecking order is FAQ>Armybook>BRB.  Unless we see and FAQ, the stonehorn's rules override the BRB rules for allocating hits.  Shooting templates hit the rider or the beast, but not both.

[Enkiel]

Unless otherwise stated, the stonehorn's rules override the BRB rules for allocating hits.  Shooting templates hit the rider or the beast, but not both. 

cannonball does hit both.

pretty sure stonethrower too.

[Cleavelander]

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my language.  I meant specifically in this case (rider=hunter, stonehorn=beast), the templates hit only one or the other.   The generalized rules from the BRB say that all templates hit both the mount and the character on top.  The rules for the stonehorn contradict and override this.

[Fool]

Without the hit allocation rule in the armybook (Hunting Beast), how would we solve a problem like this?

If a cannonball hits both the Stonehorn and the hunter, who would be hit first? 

The Stonehorn  is a monster and will therefore stop the cannonball bounce if it does not die from it (it can't die from D6/2 wounds from a cannon, if it is unwounded). This means that the hunter will never get hit if the Stonehorn is hit first. The hunter can also stop the bounce since it is a monstrous Infantry (only half of the times though with 4 W).

So the ogre player would always argue that the model who is most likely to stop the bounce is hit first

Cannons can only hit one model per rank though. Is a rider and its mount two models in the same rank or do they  count as one model?

The Hunting Beast rule makes life much simpler

[grey templar]

They would both be hit simultaniously as the cannonball hit the model, which is both the hunter and the stonehorn.

We arn't given an order so the best way to solve it is that both are hit at the same time. Other interpertations will likely only open up other rules problems.

[Far2Casual]

Agree with GT. The mounted Stonehorn rules are just a repetition of things that are already in the BRB. A mounted Stonehorn is a mounted monster, and a cannon ball will hit both. If you begin with the discussion "but the rules there override those from the BRB", it's like opening the Pandora Box. You'll start with Screaming Bell catapults, Sphinxes, etc ...

[Enkiel]

If you begin with the discussion "but the rules there override those from the BRB", it's like opening the Pandora Box. You'll start with Screaming Bell catapults, Sphinxes, etc ...

its funny, because skavens around here actually do that to cannonball too... (the randomization)

[DragonEater]

The stonehorn has different rules for being ridden by a regular rider and by a hunter.  The fact that there is a distinction and army books override the BSB (page 11), particularly when they are not out-dated, makes it appear that the randomization is intentional.  Hopefully, there will be a FAQ soon to clear up a few points with the ogres but they don't seem to be in a hurry getting those out.

[Gutlord Inquisitor]

Thing is, normally for a Stonehorn (or any of the other 8th ed ridden beasties), the normal rules are actually that you don't randomise between riders and beast (hence the Beast Rider special rule). Really, there needed to be a separate "Beast with Howdah" sort of unit type since 100% of the 8th ed books so far have had ridden monsters not ridden by characters.

It needs a FAQ. I'd agree with the technical "army book overrules BRB" but I've a feeling it was intended as "hits the rider on a 5+ as normal as opposed to the Beast Rider rules we just outlined". I've a feeling it was meant to just follow the normal rules for ridden monsters and the 5+ thing was a reminder.