No love for the Gut Maw?

[Baron Wastelands]

So, I was looking at our new magic items, and despite some initial disappointment, it seems as though there is a general acknowledgement that the hellheart is awesome, Greedy Fist is a steal, Rock Eye is cheap enough to be great insurance, and the Dragonhide Banner is finding its way into most lists.
There is even acknowledgement that the Runemaw still has a role, even if it's not as general use as once it was, and there are those who are championing the cause of Grut's Sickle.

On the flip side, both our weapons seem very overpriced, and are unlikely to find their way into Tyrant's (remember those?) or Slaughtermaster's hands. The thiefstone is . . . well, shall we say, still undergoing clinical trials?

Which leaves us with the Gut Maw, which seems to have had very little comment. And I have this nagging feeling that it should be useful. First, Terror is a double-edged sword to be sure, but the ability to cause fear in fear-causers is not to be forgotten . . . and the ability to regain wounds in challenges could mean that characters can go from challenge to challenge with impunity. Perhaps the problem is that it is very costly for a bruiser, tyrants are not seeing much play, and it's redundant on a caster that can regain wounds when casting.

But let's suppose that you equip a tyrant or even a bruiser with a GW and the Gut Maw - you can take a fair amount of challenges on the chin, and then whale back with a bunch of str 7 or str 6 attacks, repairing the damage as you go. For those protracted combats, this could be a real edge.

Would I rather have a ward save? Maybe. But as long as I'm reasonably confident of surviving a round of attacks, the Gut Maw will keep me alive indefinately, which a ward save won't. I'm almost tempted to give it to my BSB, and see what happens . . .

Any thoughts?

[rothgar13]

I agree with most of your thoughts on it - it's fairly useful to a challenge-monkey Tyrant. The main thing is, how many of those do you see these days? Not as many as before. That said, lists who actually make use of the big guts will probably get some good use out of it, because SMs can replicate its effects via Bloodgruel.

[Firebelcher]

I like your reasoning. Thing is who accepts a challenge from and ogre killing machine?

I guess it can be used on butchers who don't have the lore of Maw. Would have been a fun item on a firebelly.

[Komone]

Used gutmaw on my tyrant pre-new book pretty much every game and ate many wounds. Now..too expensive really. Not feeling the love.

K

[sitaavanu]

In a dual tyrant list I like the gutmaw, giving terror is awesome.

[grey templar]

I think it is a decent item.

My only problem with it is that it's Heavy Armor and not an additional save that stacks with mundane HA.

They should have made it a 5+ save that stacks normally. if it was that i would take it every time.

[Shadowlord]

Gut Maw gets one thumb up from me.

If you do not accept the challenge, then back with your generel or whatever you have and more wounds on your unit for me.

[Hoggle the Gnoblar]

It's what I'm running on my tyrant general, my only gripe is I'm having trouble combining it with other stuff so I'm thinking of going gut maw/ maw seeker/ GW then seeing if I have points for a ward of some kind.
The other idea is greadyfist/gutmaw/ sword of initi ten.

[Da GoBBo]

I like your reasoning. Thing is who accepts a challenge from and ogre killing machine?

Chaos warriors, Hahahaaaa! ... Greater deamons, vampires ... all the other killing machines out there.

[Phazael]

I run a Tyrant.  I have not bothered with this item because I knew its capabilities from the prior book, so I have had no need to test it.  I can say that I would not bother with it because you can generate the same sort of effect on a SM with the lore of the Maw and no one in their right mind will ever willingly accept a challenge from a Tyrant.

[Lanzlo]

I run a Tyrant.  I have not bothered with this item because I knew its capabilities from the prior book, so I have had no need to test it.  I can say that I would not bother with it because you can generate the same sort of effect on a SM with the lore of the Maw and no one in their right mind will ever willingly accept a challenge from a Tyrant.

Then again, those that HAVE to accept challenges (Warriors of Chaos, anyone?) will get utterly  WTFPWNBBQed by that.

[forgottenlor]

At its price, I'd rather have a 4+ wardsave or the crown of command, or the other trickster's shard, or the greedy fist (or any combination of the above)

[Cleavelander]

There are a few builds that could prove useful with it.  I'm imagining Gutmaw, talisman of endurance, other tricksters shard, and a great weapon to send him bloodthirster hunting. 

[Lanzlo]

Actually, this has inspired me to test it out. Setup I'm thinking of trying:

Tyrant
Gut Maw
Biting Blade
Greedy Fist
Potion of Speed
Ironfist

This will give him a 4+/6++ save. He hits at Strength 6 that slices though all but the toughest armor, and the Potion of Speed for when he absolutely, positively, has to kill off the enemy before he swings again.

Any thoughts? Comments? Chocolate chip cookies?

[rothgar13]

I7 is actually striking at the same time as some armies (WoC, Skaven, Vamps), and after all the Elves and the fighty Daemons anyway, so that means that the Potion of Speed is of conditional use at best. I'm loving the Greedy Fist, though. I think I would go with the following, however:

Tyrant, Great Weapon, Gut Maw, Potion of Foolhardiness, Talisman of Preservation

He'll have 6 attacks on T1, and between self healing and a 4+ Ward he's tough as nails. Another one you could consider is the following:

Tyrant, Great Weapon, Greedy Fist, Gut Maw, The Other Trickster's Shard

He'll chew through even Greater Daemon Toughness and 2+ armor at S8 (and we are making a challenge-monkey, after all, so this is relevant), and he'll force them to re-roll Wards as icing.

[Bob the Butcher]

Just a few things re Gut Maw

Terror if this is why you are taking Gut Maw then the terrifying Mask of EEE is 20pts cheaper.

Healing wounds in a challenge is really nice but very situational.

Some Challenge situations where it is useful
1. Solo characters on Dragons
2. Greater Demons
3. Opposing characters that have to challenge eg: Warriors of Chaos

[Firebelcher]

Just a few things re Gut Maw
Terror if this is why you are taking Gut Maw then the terrifying Mask of EEE is 20pts cheaper.

However other models won't be able to use your tyrants leadership, a bit counter-productive. 

[Baron Wastelands]

I think there are still plenty of armies out there who have things that will accept challenges, enough to make this worth investigating. I mean, I don't expect to get any use out of it when facing skaven, but I have minotaurs, chaos (both), vampires, slayers, even bold warbosses regularly going toe to toe with my ogre characters. Not to mention special characters.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I think this is a great item for taking on our own kind! Ogres accept challenges, and slug it out - and terror causes fear throughout, when one of our big weaknesses is still LD rolls, especially outside the general's bubble.
I'm going to test it on a bruiser, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try it on my BSB, but I just might - after all, it's not uncommon for him to get challenged, never mind about have his challenges accepted, if he's in a unit without other characters.

[riparato]

Seems expensive. I took it against WoC tonight but the heavy armour and gaining of wounds didn't come into play. Scared some mounted knights off the table with the terror but could have done that with the mask of eeeeee. My champion nailed the nurgle lord though. Finished him off with a stomp. Sweeeeeet! ( completely off track but worth a mention I thought)

[sitaavanu]

Terror if this is why you are taking Gut Maw then the terrifying Mask of EEE is 20pts cheaper.

Healing wounds in a challenge is really nice but very situational.

I look at the item more in this light
Its terrifying mask + HA

So you are actually paying 15 pts to regain wounds in challenges.  Up to you to decide if it's worth it or not, I think for 5 pts less it would be much easier to swallow but still not worth writing off complety.  I think the real challenge of this item is that it is best on a tyrant.  And most people aren't digging the tyrant right now.

[Bob the Butcher]

Terror if this is why you are taking Gut Maw then the terrifying Mask of EEE is 20pts cheaper.

Healing wounds in a challenge is really nice but very situational.

I look at the item more in this light
Its terrifying mask + HA

So you are actually paying 15 pts to regain wounds in challenges.  Up to you to decide if it's worth it or not, I think for 5 pts less it would be much easier to swallow but still not worth writing off complety.  I think the real challenge of this item is that it is best on a tyrant.  And most people aren't digging the tyrant right now.

I agree designed for a Tyrant.

It is hard to justify a Tyrant over a Slaughter Master as mentioned, but the Leadership 9 is nice.

[Baron Wastelands]

I look at the item more in this light
Its terrifying mask + HA

So you are actually paying 15 pts to regain wounds in challenges. 

But as Firebelcher pointed out above, the Terrifying mask of EEE! has a real downside on any character whose leadership you are using. I would never take this on a bruiser or tyrant.