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Author Topic: Leadbelchers  (Read 7050 times)

ogreama

Leadbelchers
« on: Aug 30, 2011, 10:27:40 PM »
Can anyone confirm that the LB d6 shots require a separate BS roll to hit?



Talonz

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #1 on: Aug 30, 2011, 10:39:09 PM »
Pretty much, yes.

ogreama

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #2 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:01:59 PM »
Cool, now I have 4 new Bull bodies to make Maneaters.

Thanks for the heads up.

Talonz

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #3 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:15:00 PM »
So giving up on the leadies?  Are you sure on that?

They can shoot every turn now, so d6 shots isnt that bad, especially considering they never misfire!  Cost went down by 12 pts.  Range was doubled (although they suffer range penalties now, net effect is you still get to fire twice as far!).

People hate DOC flamers for their d6 shots, and although leadies still cost more, we have a greater range, +1 ws, W, and A! (and -1S grant you), AND we can buff them with gutmagic, heavens, etc.! 

132 pts kicks out 3-18 shots EVERY turn.  With the same range as a handgun, better even when you factor in their ability to move 6 and fire!  And that same unit can still fight as good as 3 naked bulls.

I think its a shame if you took your leadies apart.

ogreama

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #4 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:22:37 PM »

Factor in all the penalties to hit with a measly BS of 3 and no stand and shoot?

Oh yeah, you can also have the ability to shoot 1 shot per model...I can do that with Maneaters...only better.

...passola!


Falconlance

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #5 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:28:02 PM »
I think they have their place. Shooting down swordmasters, for example, after your firebelly's fireball got dispelled. I don't care what level your wizard is, he isn't dispelling shrapnel from a leadbelcher.

Talonz

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #6 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:30:50 PM »
Factor in all the penalties to hit with a measly BS of 3 and no stand and shoot?

You mean the same penalties we had with the old ones, except now with a greater range(at -1) option?

Quote
Oh yeah, you can also have the ability to shoot 1 shot per model

Better than doing d6 to yourself!

Quote
...I can do that with Maneaters...only better.

Sure, for 19 points more.  Maneaters have a very different role, and are better off maximizing use of their special abilities and greater hth potential.

Why not have both?  Thats my plan.

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Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #7 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:33:44 PM »
With enough shots you will hit something even if you hit on 6's. They are also very good at Shooting expensive monsters and cavalry.

There's also the threat of them. Your opponent might be afraid of getting close to them because they suddenly can roll many shots and blast them to smithereens.

I think they are quite solid, but I'm not sure if I will have a place for them in my army.
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ogreama

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #8 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:49:06 PM »

I'm sure they'll have their place too...but not in my army either.

Now the book has yet to be released, there is a chance for them if the book says otherwise.

Talonz

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #9 on: Aug 30, 2011, 11:56:49 PM »
I havn't seen a concrete reason yet to support your conclusion.

ogreama

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #10 on: Aug 31, 2011, 12:05:34 AM »

Low BS
Possibility of 1 shot.
No Stand & Shoot.
Uses up Special points.

...the above convinces me.

...I hope the positives do well for you.


Stuntypunter

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #11 on: Aug 31, 2011, 12:18:52 AM »
Mathhammer for the comparison if I have these right...

Before a unit of 6 would generate 30 shots and one misfire every other turn. So over 4 turns they would generate 60 shots and kill one of their own in the process. Those 30 shots would generate 15 hits each time so 30 hits total over 4 turns at 12".

Now a unit of 6 will generate 21 shots per turn with no misfires so over the course of the same 4 turns they will generate 84 shots with 28 hits at long range (which wasn't even an option before) and 42 hits at short range (compared to 30 before) and all without killing any of their own.

6 maneaters with brace of pistols will cost significantly more and will generate 12 shots per turn with 8 hits and you are neglecting the superior HtH ability that you paid for.

Add the points reduction and the fear factor they create and the LBs are a bargain and fill a role that isn't accounted for. God help any fast cavalry that come in range.

Bitharne

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #12 on: Aug 31, 2011, 12:20:47 AM »

Low BS

4+ to hit, 5+ at long range? That's not too bad.

Quote
Possibility of 1 shot.

Better than killing half the unit on a missfire, and fire's every turn averages out with artillery dice a little bit.

Quote
No Stand & Shoot.

Would be nice...but firing every turn already, S&S would be silly fluff and rules-wise tbh

Quote
Uses up Special points.

Since when was any army overly concerned about running out of special points exactly? Points, yes..but they could be core and it wouldn't change much really.

I wan't em, for the same reason I want an Ironblaster...Just cuz! (Oh, and big fat guys carrying around cannons that shoot pokey things and clusters of cannonballs is just cool).

Talonz

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #13 on: Aug 31, 2011, 12:22:57 AM »
The no stand and shoot is the only actual *change* in your list ogreama.  Given how rarely this came into play under the old rules and that the firing rate has doubled, I cant see that being an issue.

And stuntypunter points out the overall shots has in fact gone up, not down.  (d6 every turn rather than 0-10 every other turn)

DonTheDime

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #14 on: Aug 31, 2011, 01:06:43 AM »
In the first book Leadbelchers were 2-5, does anyone know if the unit size restrictions are lifted in the new book?

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Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #15 on: Aug 31, 2011, 01:07:52 AM »
In the first book Leadbelchers were 2-5, does anyone know if the unit size restrictions are lifted in the new book?

I've read that they're 3+.

Gutdaddy

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #16 on: Aug 31, 2011, 01:43:16 AM »
Can they shoot in two ranks?  Can they take full command?  Thats something that hasn't been asked.

Bitharne

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #17 on: Aug 31, 2011, 01:45:46 AM »
Can they shoot in two ranks?  Can they take full command?  Thats something that hasn't been asked.

Yes and Probably.

Orktavius

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #18 on: Aug 31, 2011, 01:47:40 AM »
actually it has and they can :-/
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huesofblue

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #19 on: Aug 31, 2011, 01:54:57 AM »
Nothing in the book says they can't shoot in 2 ranks as per normal missile weapons, and they can only take champion + bellower. No standard, unfortunately.

Falconlance

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #20 on: Aug 31, 2011, 02:01:15 AM »
That's alright... standards a pain in the butt when you break form combat and you're forced to watch your 3wound command model kill himself.

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Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #21 on: Aug 31, 2011, 02:02:19 AM »
Nothing in the book says they can't shoot in 2 ranks as per normal missile weapons, and they can only take champion + bellower. No standard, unfortunately.

I don't think I would give them a Standard anyway, as the extra combat resolution is wasted.
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huesofblue

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #22 on: Aug 31, 2011, 02:06:07 AM »
You don't have to, but the option is always good ;)

Since the unit cap size has been removed, a gunline themed army packing larger units e.g. LBs in units of 8-12 could benefit from a standard.

Bitharne

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #23 on: Aug 31, 2011, 02:23:08 AM »
Haha....6x2 leadbelchers with BSB with AP banner  :roll:

Falconlance

Re: Leadbelchers
« Reply #24 on: Aug 31, 2011, 02:33:09 AM »
Arent leadbelchers already armor piercing?

 

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