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Author Topic: Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane  (Read 3312 times)

GAWD

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« on: Jan 11, 2006, 10:44:28 PM »
First, an admission: I'm not a very good painter (lack of talent, patience, time, etc...), so I really struggle w/blending and shading.  Highlighting and drybrushing for me are hit or miss.

I've been dipping painted models since this summer; it's a tip I picked up from some of my historicals wargaming buddies and a friend at USGWHQ.  If you're unfamiliar w/the process, it's basic system is very simple.  Paint the model by number (i.e.: just apply the paint scheme: no drybrushing, no inking, no shading, no blending, no highlighting).  Then dip the model into a polyurathane stain (i.e.: a wood stain mixed w/polyurathane, like Minwax Polyshades), usually Antique Walnut.  Shake the model vigorously to remove the excess.  Let dry for 24 hrs, and finally spray w/a matte coat.  Your finished product turns out faux-shaded and faux-blended paint job.

This method is catching on w/undead players, tyranid players, and lizzies.  However, I've adapted it for my Ogre army.  B/c the models are bigger, I gave each model a stark highlight/drybrushing and inked the weapons.  I also brushed the "dip" onto the models so that I could more easily control how the "dip" pooled.

Onto the samples ...

4 bulls and an irongut

post-dipping front


post-dipping back


post-matte front


post-matte back


More examples w/close-ups to follow: Ironfists, Ironguts, Leadbelchers.

Ideas?

Metheon

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #1 on: Jan 11, 2006, 10:57:27 PM »
Looks like a basic ink wash to me.. What am I missing?

Could you take a few close-ups, might be easiere to see the difference from an ink wash..

Other than that it looks cool (being honest here!).. It does seem like some of the stuff you've put on landed wrong, like a dark spot a place where they should've been a highlight..
Beside the above point I can't understand you're calling yourself a bad painter..

GAWD

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #2 on: Jan 12, 2006, 02:23:11 AM »
Basic ink washes don't shade the models as dramatically, or they tend to drown out the underlying tones when the difference in color from the ink to the underpaint is dramatic enough to shade a model.  The "dip" shades nicely and blends upward so that the color underneath isn't washed out.  That said, the dip darkens (usually a warm ambering or cool yellowing) the underpaint a few shades, so if you dip, you always want to dip brighter than your intended outcome (i.e.: use your second to last or final highlight coat as your underpaint).  The "dip" has an odd consistency so it pools up in weird places.  That's why I don't really "dip" my models anymore.  Instead, I brush it on and water it down w/mineral spirits as needed--more control this way.

Anyhoo ...

Here are some ironfisted bulls.  Some interesting things happened w/these.  I used brown ink over boltgun metal, then I dipped and matte coated.  The chemicals reacted, and I got a subtle ridging/rippling effect that approximates actual rust really well.  Also, I used a black undercoat over which I put some light coats of yellow ... weird water staining effects were produced.

pre-dipping: basic colors


dipped: front


dipped: back


matte coated: front


matte coated: back


close-up dipped


close-up matte coated

iAmThEfLyInGbEaVer

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #3 on: Jan 12, 2006, 02:49:52 AM »
Dipping has really caught on at the local gw, the staff is planing to get a barrel of dip so they can do a forge world biotitan...

I love the effects of it, I'll probably do it with my skeletons. It's amazing how easily you can make your army look that good. This technique is spreading around the globe quickly and means we can look forward to more well painted armies! Maybe GW will come out with their own version of dip colours so there will be more than brown!

Shawn Michaels

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #4 on: Jan 12, 2006, 11:35:41 AM »
Wow. They look pretty awesome. I'm a really bad painter too - I'd probably be ok if I had the patience, but I don't :D so I might have to pick up some woodstain. Whereabouts would I get polyurathane from? Same kind of store you'd get woodstain from?

Cheers,

SM

borgusbonecruncher

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #5 on: Jan 12, 2006, 12:31:25 PM »
actually looks pretty cool man
Thanks Alot !

Richie

Kyte

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #6 on: Jan 12, 2006, 02:35:10 PM »
Cool an quickly, just how I like it man!!!

Genghis Khan

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #7 on: Jan 12, 2006, 03:19:40 PM »
Honestly, they look good, GW would say that they have at least 3 colors and the bases are flocked. Have they been baithing in Skrags Cauldron ? ;)
Who will be the next Khan in the Ogre Kingdoms?

GreenDragon

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #8 on: Jan 12, 2006, 03:45:18 PM »
Looks okay from afar, but really don't like the close up. I prefer a more subtle blend, and detail as well.

However for those not interested in painting, I'd much rather face an army done like this compared to some I've faced, just a splash of brown paint on the clothes, flesh on skin, and bg metal on weapons and they call that painted...  :evil:
You can see my OK Gnoblog "Chasers of the Fang" Here

Reg06

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #9 on: Jan 12, 2006, 04:23:35 PM »
I've always liked dip models, but have been dissapointed because I don't play any dippable armies... until now. They look great, the dip does wonders on the orange/yellow.
If by RAW, you mean "Reg06's Audacious Whims", then you'd be right.
Forum primer
http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=7241.0
Going Last Podcast; http://goinglast.net/

Cpt. Drill

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #10 on: Jan 12, 2006, 06:14:12 PM »
Wow that doesnt look half bad...

Although I think you should have tried to remove mold lines as the dipping technique really higlights them!
:gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar: :gnoblar:

Rogg

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #11 on: Jan 12, 2006, 08:20:51 PM »
Look Good, I like the Pants color.

Zergo

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #12 on: Jan 12, 2006, 08:31:35 PM »
They look good, though the close up of the faces is weird.  I can't shake the feeling that they're covered with delicious gravy...

-Zergo

GAWD

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #13 on: Jan 12, 2006, 11:42:38 PM »
@Shawn Michaels:  I use Minwax Polyshades Antique Walnut, which you can buy at any of the chain hardware stores in the US (Home Depot, Lowes, Ace, Sears, etc...).

@Reg & Rog: Dipping usually ambers and darkens the underlying color a couple of shades.  So, the pants are straight Bad Moon Yellow to compensate for the darkening.

@Capt. Drill:  Mold lines are the bane of my existence.  I usually overlook them, and when I do try to fix them, my sanding looks worse.  I'll have to get better w/the mold lines.

@Green Dragon: I agree entirely about the close-up pictures; I'd much prefer real blends, shading, and highlights.  However, I've not been successful doing things the "right" and "better" way, hence the dipping.  That said, the models look better as a group than picked up and investigated individually.  But, had I not included those close-ups, I wouldn't have given as accurate a look at "dipping" Ogres as I could.

@Zergo:  The gravy look is excentuated in the post-dipping pic b/c dipping gives the models a glossy, "old-school toy soldier" finish.  The post-matte pictures show how the matte coat nuetralizes the dip's gloss and provide a look at how the models look close up after the entire process is over.  That said, after matte coating, you can keep painting the model for better highlighting, to add fine details that the dip would have drowned out (like tatoos), and address issues w/the dip pooling in unsightly areas.

Here are some leadbelchers that I did on the same day.  Dipping has a dirtying affect on white, and I got the same ridging/rusting effect on the metal.

pre-dipping: basic colors


post-dipping: front


post-dipping: back


post-matte: front


post-matte: back


close-up: post-dip


close-up: post-matte


I've got some Ironguts done like this as well and at the same time as the previous pics.  I think the Ironguts probably turnout the best.  I'll try to up them up later.

GreenDragon

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #14 on: Jan 13, 2006, 05:54:26 PM »
I like the dirty look on the white pants, very difficult to create that look by simply painting.
You can see my OK Gnoblog "Chasers of the Fang" Here

T0MaHaWk

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #15 on: Jan 13, 2006, 06:02:53 PM »
Dipping is great. My club dipped the models from the MacCragge- set and it turned out awesome. The way to go if you want your army ready fast.

GAWD

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #16 on: Jan 14, 2006, 02:07:01 AM »
Here are some ironguts.

pre-dipping


post-dip:front


post-dip: back


post-matte: front


post-matte: back


close-up: post-dip


close-up: post-matte


That's all I got for now guys.

Shawn Michaels

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #17 on: Jan 14, 2006, 03:39:11 AM »
A question - I will probably be starting a Tomb Kings army within the next month. Would that technique look good on simple primed-white Skellies?

Borgol

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #18 on: Jan 14, 2006, 06:53:17 PM »
Hell Yeah.
Look, another lame sig!

Nibbler

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #19 on: Jan 14, 2006, 07:34:36 PM »
dipping does seem to create a level of death really quick butI can seem to find a UK GW site or shop that sells matte coat and shiny ogres would not do!

Elsinthun

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #20 on: Jan 14, 2006, 07:52:41 PM »
Personally I prefer to give more time and attention to my models so I think I'll give that technique a miss for now. But it does look very good, I wouldn't object to playing against an army painted like that, its better than most people's painting at my GW. After the shine has been removed its great although I do think it looks bad when shiney. All in all good technique and nice models, just take the time to remove mold lines as they can ruin models IMO and are detrimental to ink washes and suchlike.

-Elsinthun
2006:
Wins:  2
Draws:1
Loses: 2

bork da basher

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #21 on: Jan 14, 2006, 07:56:14 PM »
i dont think i could bring myself to ever use these techniques. im too set in my ways of painting units the old fashioned way. i can see its a great way to get an army to gaming standard very quicly though. armies like tomb kings could benefit tremendously from such things. plus if you want that shine to go away. testors dullcoat spray varnish is what you need.

GAWD

Dipping Ogres: experiments w/stains & polyurathane
« Reply #22 on: Jan 15, 2006, 11:41:34 PM »
@Shawn Michaels:  TK would be a great army to use dipping on.  Keep in mind that dipping over white will yield the look that I got on my leadbelchers, which may work well on the skellies.  But for my money, I'd base them in bleached bone (spray can of course) then dip.  A buddy of mine who's won 2 golden demons is doing this w/some of his TK army.

@Elsinthun:  Lots of people don't matte the dip coat.  I think it's a mistake for any army, even those that you'd think it looks good on (Nids, Lizzies spring to mind).  The models look soaking wet or like they took a gravy bath.  IMHO the dip has to be matte coated.  I'm working on the mold lines.

@bork: I've never been successful w/the "right" or "old fashioned" way of painting high quality models, hence the dipping.  BTW: The testors dullcoat is on the exact one I used on these Ogres.  It's worth the difference in price b/c the cheap stuff from the hardware store sometimes has a problem w/clouding.

 

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