Messages

1

The Feeding Grounds / Re: Getting around Steadfast

« on: Jul 05, 2012, 04:43:45 PM »

In 8th its a game of points denial because 100 points is a win!

I run 4x3 units so that I have enough wounds in my unit to survive long combats against steadfast.

Our answer to steadfast is STUBBORN spell. Use crown of command and stubborn spell and standard of discipline and BSB and you are re-rollable 9.

Since Ogres don't rely on ranks it's not awful to be flanked, unless it's a hard hitting unit. In those cases block your flanks with Sabretusks. They are the best redirectors in the game.

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Armies of the Kingdoms / Lead Belchers 2500

« on: May 14, 2012, 07:18:41 PM »

The idea behind this army is to sit back and shoot while the tiny units of Gnoblars and fast sabretusks divert stuff and slow their movement down.

The big units of gnoblars are for disruption and steadfast breaking once the Ogres are in combat.

Slaughtermaster - Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Dispel Scroll, The Other Trickster's Shard

Bruiser - Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Battle Standard Bearer, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Crown of Command

Ironguts x8 - Full Command, Lookout Gnoblar, Standard of Discipline

Gnoblars x40
Gnoblars x40
Gnoblars x10
Gnoblars x10
Gnoblars x10
Gnoblars x10

Sabertusks x1
Sabertusks x1
Sabertusks x1

Leadbelchers x6 - Bellower
Leadbelchers x6 - Bellower

Maneaters x4 - Bellower, Standard, Brace of Ogre Pistols x4, Gleaming Pennant, Sniper, Stubborn.

Ironblaster
Ironblaster

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Hardest Lore to fight against?

« on: Sep 12, 2011, 04:20:04 PM »

Shadowshadowshadow

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Maneaters with Scout & Sniper - disillusioned?

« on: Sep 09, 2011, 04:29:00 PM »

For their points cost, if you are taking scout I think
It has to be paired with Stubborn. They can get in combat turn 2 but with LD 8 they need that stubborn.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: standard bulls/guts unit size in 8th? (do i have enough ogres?)

« on: Sep 09, 2011, 04:22:35 PM »

I don't agree with horde Ogres. The two problems we need to solve are "kill faster - remove steadfast" and "enough Ogres" to raise likelihood steadfast is removed and to deny points. Horde only adds points denial because in the average case you are fighting 5-wide units, not other hordes. The extra attacks are wasted.

Perhaps the answer is 4x4 or 4x3? 12 Ogres is $&!? points, right in the 8th points denial sweet spot and you maximize attacks and survivability as your hedge against getting tarpitted too long avaunt steadfast units.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Slaughtermaster builds

« on: Sep 09, 2011, 05:39:43 AM »

The Slaughtermaster cannot take magical armor (Glittering Scales) because he is a wizard who does not have an option for normal armor

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Mournfang unit size

« on: Sep 09, 2011, 05:24:46 AM »

I am rolling 4 with heavy armor, iron fist, dragonhide banner, musician and standard. I think this is the best build.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: standard bulls/guts unit size in 8th? (do i have enough ogres?)

« on: Sep 09, 2011, 05:18:55 AM »

I believe that steadfast is one of the Ogres great weaknesses that must be hedged against when designing a list. For this reason I am testing 3x4 units first against the typical 40-man infantry blocks you see in 8th.

The solutions to steadfast are:

• more ranks to reduce the time it takes to remove steadfast = best option
• Get gnoblars in there - doesn't make sense because gnoblars are slow
• Multi-charges - not feasible always because we are the army with less units so we need the option of matching up 1 to 1 with units
• Reduce their ranks through template weapons, shooting and other magic - somewhat of an option

8th edition is largely about points denial and my gaming group and I fine the magic unit size to be around 300-350 points in 8th. I think its ok to have larger units of Ogres at 3x4.

With a 3x4 units of bulls against an average 40 man unit (5x8), I feel that I should do around 10 wounds a turn and they should do around 3. So in 3 combat rounds they lose steadfast w/o me having to counter charge with another unit.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Sabretusks = Best warmachine hunter ever!

« on: Sep 09, 2011, 04:03:16 AM »

I believe the only viable builds are 1 tusk or 5 tusks. With ld4 tusks are too easy to panic. T4 and 2w is not hard to get with all the s4 direct damage/missile spells.

1 tusk has less usefulness - its only use would be diversion/slow down. I don't like this option because Ogres want to get across the table as fast as possible to reduce risk of weakness against magic and shooting. Why do we need a blocking/diversion unit.

I am running 3 units of 5 to make them redundant and hard to panic (need to do 4w at T4 - harder to do at their speed) and using them to hunt mages and warmachines which are two things that Ogres struggle against

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Best ogre unit formations?

« on: Sep 09, 2011, 03:59:07 AM »

I believe that steadfast is one of the Ogres great weaknesses that must be hedged against when designing a list. For this reason I am testing 3x4 units first against the typical 40-man infantry blocks you see in 8th. I feel that I should do around 10 wounds a turn and they should do around 3. So in 3 combat rounds they lose steadfast w/o me having to counter charge with another unit. Ogres need to Multi-charge units or if going alone need to have a solution for steadfast. In 8th I feel the opponent will outnumber our units so we need to be ready with an answer for steadfast that isn't duel charges.

11

The Feeding Grounds / Re: Number per unit and ratio of bull units to iron gut units?

« on: Sep 18, 2007, 03:10:56 PM »

I field 2 units of 3 Bulls naked (with bellower) for charge bait and 4 units of 3 iron guts (with bellower)

warPEZ

12

The Feeding Grounds / Re: Gnoblar Scraplauncher

« on: Sep 18, 2007, 03:09:41 PM »

I used my first scraplauncher last night.

Turn 1: guessed perfectly and did 17 hits on a unit of Empire Spearmen. 6 wounds, he luckily saves 5 of them. Still cool to know I can hit 17 guys
Turn 2: Forced to charge into a defended obstacle. Only does 1 impact hit to self and doesn't wound.
Turn 3: Fighting in CC
Turn 4: 20 Gnoblars Fighters and Scraplauncher manage to win the combat and the Empire Spearmen (~300 points) run and get caught.
Turn 5: Shoots and misfires. Lets my opponent shoot the Scraplauncher which causes 1 wound on Bulls unit.
Turn 6: Forced to charge again, again across difficult terrain. Does 6 impact hits to itself causing 3 wounds. Wins the combat and eats Knights (~125 points)

I am intrigued enough to keep using it!

_mac

13

The Feeding Grounds / Re: What occupies your Rare slots?

« on: Sep 18, 2007, 03:02:30 PM »

2 gorgers, every time. Gorgers are just too good to ignore. If there are warmachines on the board you can go after them. If there is a crazy unit that you don't want to fight you charge it in the rear and tie it up for many turns (Tar Pit Gorger). If you need some extra strength 5 attacks in a combat you have that too. I've even come on the board in front of a unit and charged their character... killing blow worked for a smooth 170 something points. They also seem to make opponents that don't know about them overreact by turning units around to face them. I don't think the gorgers have ever survived one of my games but they almost always get their points back easily and when they don't, their tactical advantage they give is worth the 150 points spent on them.

warPEZ

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: You have just won the roll to choose who goes first....

« on: Sep 18, 2007, 02:57:22 PM »

-I will go first against all shooting armies that have 24 inch range.
-vs. Lizardmen it is better to go second because Skinks are out of range and there are no Warmachines. You can also go safely second against Vampire Counts because they have mostly magic missiles and no warmachines.


With that said, I like going second when I can afford it. With a fear causing army, going 2nd allows for those bottom of turn 6 panics where he has no chance to rally. This is a huge advantage for Ogres.

warPEZ

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Use of Gnoblars

« on: Oct 18, 2006, 06:06:26 PM »

My game last night sums up the use of Gnoblars. In 2250 I have 3 units of 25 Fighters and I finally took 1 unit of 8 Trappers last night after reading this (and other) threads who claimed you must have them. I played Dwarfs. At first I thought the trappers wouldn't be that effective because dwarfs don't move that much so their ability to march block was limited. Instead I moved them behind the dwarfs to block flee moves. Low and behold, this rule came in to play twice. I charged his gun guys with the Ironguts and a Tyrant and he chose to flee knowing they would be wiped out in hopes of pulling my Tyrant forward for a counter charge on his turn with Slayers. Score 10 Dwarves for the trappers. 2 turns later they had moved down the dwarf line. A victorious unit of 20 Longbeards had pursued a unit they killed and opened up their flank to another Bulls units with Butcher. They charged and beat the dwarves by a lot and they failed their break test. The trappers were right behind them again for the kill. Score huge ranked unit of dwarves for the Trappers.

And then to top it all off. I took 2 table quarters with my two remaining (one got killed) ranked units of Gnoblars for an extra 200VP.

That game really summed up to me why these troops are so good. I spent 200 points on my Gnoblars and got at least 500VP back with them. And it's been that way every game I've played.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Use of Gnoblars

« on: Oct 17, 2006, 12:25:08 AM »

I played a game against defensive Tomb Kings army this weekend. My Gnoblars did absolutely nothing except on the last turn they grabbed 3 of the 4 table quarters. Those 300 victory points help a lot! Especially because it costs me 150 points (for 3 units of 25) and I got 300 victory points just by moving them around.

I would always take 2 units to start any army!

17

Armies of the Kingdoms / Re: 2250 - New to Ogres

« on: Oct 16, 2006, 07:17:44 PM »

Changes to the list after the above games:

Lose the weirdstone necklace and the Longstrider big name on the Tyrant. He is so tough that I don't think he needs the ward save. He'd help the army more with the Kineater big name. Everyone trys to beat Ogres by panicking them. This will insulate against that.

Lose the Yhetees. They are too expensive and moving through terrain is not that good since you can't declare a charge unless you are within 2" of the edge for LOS. The turn they roll up on the edge to get into position is usually the turn they are shot to death and then they have a high liklihood of panicking and running away. I think a naked unit of 3 bulls would be 90 pts cheaper and would walk around the terrain and be just as easy to panic but would save me points I can use to add something else.

18

Armies of the Kingdoms / Re: 2250 - New to Ogres

« on: Oct 16, 2006, 07:12:46 PM »

This weeks 2250 games and how it changed this list:

Game 1: Lizardmen - Loss

In this game I lost because I was beat on tactics and magic. I didn't realize how much shooting the 2 units of skinks, and 3 salamanders could do. That mixed with the 3 magic missile spells that the Slaan was rocking and I was already at a huge disadvantage (shooting being the Ogres weakness). His tactics were flawless, the shooting units were in the flanks and his big block of Saurus and Kroxigors were in the middle. I assumed he'd put the Slann/Temple guard unit there as well so I setup my main force across from it. Of course, he didn't do so and the Temple Guard/Slann ended up in the flank. Basically, he setup a soft decoy in the center that I committed to chasing and then shot the crap out of me while moving the soft center backwards. I got slaughtered. The only highlight for me was the Tyrant using the Tenderiser to kill 3 Kroxigors with one roll. WOW!

List composition thoughts? I never used Long Strider. I would have liked one more dispel scroll but I'm probably overreacting because I played the best spell caster in the game. The Yhetees were useless because they are hard to rally and they don't pass panic tests easily.

Game 2: Tomb Kings - Draw

After game 1 I wanted to win. I did everything right in the Tomb King battle. He was playing a Casket of Souls army that is very defensive. It relies on protecting the casket with tomb swarms and big blocks of Tomb Guard. He also had a Screaming Skull Catapult and a lot of bowmen. Another trick of his was to magic shoot like mad and then regular shoot. I was worried that I would fall to another shooting heavy list. Luckily he hits on 5's and wounds on 5's with the bowmen! That helped a lot. I was able to get across the table for a turn 3 charge with the core of my battle line. I ate through 20 skeleton bowmen in 1 attack in the center and followed up into the swarms. They were gone next turn and it was on the the casket. He counter charged some scorpions which is the only thing that saved the liche priests life.

Anyway, I had the game all but won but I was casting spells I didn't really need to to boost my units. My butcher miscast and did 3 wounds to himself and died. That was enough to turn the combat he was fighting in so that I lost. By the end of that turn I think I gave up the HUGE lead I had all because of the butcher. OOPS! Anyway, the game ended 45 points away from a win for me... so another draw that I should have 1 if not for one bad decision!

List composition thoughts? The list worked fine except that the Yhetees were too easy to panic. Also, I never found a use for Longstrider.

Lesson learned: if you don't need to cast magic then don't.

Game 3: Vampire Counts - Loss

Since he didn't have any shooting to make me make panic tests I thought that I'd setup different (deviating from the plan). This of course is always bad because you have no plan then. By the end of my setup I realized that I'd already given myself a good shot at losing. The worst thing I did is clog my best unit (bulls with tyrant and bruiser) in the corner flank with 4 Lead Belchers. They got blocked by spirit hosts and bat swarms for 2 turns. Even after that they still managed to stomp down the field and take out a unit of 12 Knights and a Black Coach (with some help from the Gorgers coming in). On the other flank I stupidly setup my ironguts. My opponent countered that with nothing so the ironguts were basically 3 turns of movement away from joining the game. That left a soft center of Gnoblars and Bulls with Butchers to face off against the zombie/skeleton bunker with all his vampires and thralls in them. I did ok fighting them but I lost eventually because the Gnoblars couldn't charge due to fear and the Ironguts were late.

List composition thoughts? The list worked fine except for the setup. The Yhetees were retarded again. Also, I never found a use for Longstrider.

Lesson learned: Don't deviate from the setup plan. My plan was reasonable and by trying to wing it I did stupid things that lost me the game before I started.

19

Armies of the Kingdoms / Re: Please help :)

« on: Oct 16, 2006, 06:34:51 PM »

My opinion is that the Yhetees are not worth the points. For 90 points more than a naked unit of 3 bulls you get a unit that can move through terrain and has +1 strength. I'd rather have the Bulls and the extra 90 points for something else because the Yhetees are easy to panic and always end up being a high profile target because with the faster move they tend to scare people.

I haven't used a scraplauncher.

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Armies of the Kingdoms / Re: 2250 - New to Ogres

« on: Oct 16, 2006, 06:32:29 PM »

use the Lead Belchers to move up, into the enemy charge range, fire, when charged, flee, and counter charge with a second wave.

I usually move them up into charge range and then stand and shoot and then fight the combat. I figured that if I flee I might not rally again and lose the points. Since the Ogres are good fighters I figured that if I stand and shoot and fight I have a chance to do more wounds and tie their flankers up. I guess if I have a counter charge its similar but I get the advantage of the charge. I'll try your suggestion. I have been using the Lead Belchers as pincers, but only when they survive the initial flank defense which hasn't been that often.

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Armies of the Kingdoms / Re: Please help :)

« on: Oct 16, 2006, 06:15:14 PM »

-The main thing you need is one Butcher minimum, two recommended, for 2000 pts.
-At 2000 you'll also want a Tyrant.
-I think that you could use another box of Bulls.
-Also I use 3 squads of 25 Gnoblars so you might want 2-3 in 2000 points. That would mean buying at least one more box.
-Lastly, another Gorger in 2000pts is really nice.

22

Archive / Re: Archive - Ogre Kingdoms vs. High Elves

« on: Oct 13, 2006, 11:08:56 PM »

Playing against High Elves, you're probably looking at 2 Bolt Throwers.

You can use your Gnoblars to screen the Bulls from shooting if the Bolts are not on hills. Other than that, you should setup as close as possible and march until you reach their lines. Once you get there you will do your damage against Toughness 3 elves. The problem is getting across that table. If he's smart he will setup farther back and protect his Bolts with big ranked units.

To aid getting across the table I would recommend that you make sure that the Tyrant has a good coverage for his Ld9. Panic is what will lose you the game against High Elves. A unit of Ironguts with the Ragbanner can be really good. The best is still a well placed battle line with the Tyrant in the middle.

Also, I find using Gnoblars to protect the flanks against Silver Helms is a useful tactic. I also pair them with Lead Belchers for support.

23

Archive / Re: Archive - Ogre Kingdoms vs. Vampire Counts

« on: Oct 13, 2006, 11:01:39 PM »

I destroyed a Vampire army in my first 2250 game vs. them. Here's what I learned:

-Ogres have an huge advantage against them because they cause Fear also which negates one of the VC's best abilities.
-Use Yhetees to kill spirit hosts with their magical attacks.
-Use your cheap troops, like Gnoblars, to tie up his Zombies/Skeletons. That way they won't be tying up your expensive units and exposing their flanks to Knight charges.
-Use your heavy hitting troops to isolate their knights and take them out. Try not to let them get the charge OR if you can't force them to charge a unit that has a support unit that can counter charge in the flank on your turn. The cool thing about Ogres is that you should be able to hold from a Knight Charge with your high toughness and wounds as long as your Tyrant is nearby for the Ld 9. It's all in how you setup.
-Let your opponent cast Invocation. Ogres can kill Skeletons easily so let this spell go off and focus on dispelling his magic charges and magic missiles. I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but my strategy was to tie up his weak troops (the kind he makes from Invocation) with my weak troops and isolate all his good stuff and kill it. For this reason the Invocation was useless to stop because I was tying up those extra Skeleton units with my Gnoblars. I tie up his points sinks with 50 pts. Gnoblars unit. Beautiful!!
-If you can, charge the necro bunker later, once you've got rid of all the dangerous flankers. Try not to let the opponent tie you up with the Necro bunker skele/zombie fortress early. Ogres are very mobile and if you crush his expensive flanking troops and avoid his tarpit you can usually undo it by going around it.

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Armies of the Kingdoms / Re: 2250 - New to Ogres

« on: Oct 13, 2006, 09:37:32 PM »

What list do you suggest?

I am still learning to play Dark Elves so I'm not sure how to classify my playing style.

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Armies of the Kingdoms / Re: 2250, take all comers lists

« on: Oct 13, 2006, 09:35:44 PM »

Ogres are only my 7th Games Workshop Army

Tyranids
Orks
Emperor's Children
Dark Eldar
Dark Elves
Cult of Slaanesh
Ogre Kingdoms

= tooo many