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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Thundermace

« on: Jun 06, 2012, 02:34:58 AM »

Touche good sir. Ok defiantly a contender for the 15 pts.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Are the ogres too strong?

« on: Jun 05, 2012, 07:22:45 PM »

New empire book can run a pretty mean mounted list, I suspect people drawn to the idea of bretts are finding their dreams realized in other books.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Thundermace

« on: Jun 05, 2012, 07:01:43 PM »

Dragon gem and Rockeye/ICI are definantly worthwhile things to take. Still a lot of points for a really small pay out.

Opal amulet negates the first hit on a 4+, charmed shield does it on a 2+ there is very little reason to take the opal amulet.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Thundermace

« on: Jun 02, 2012, 06:29:20 AM »

I adored the old T'mace, this one is ... really really hard to justify. The biggest fault with it is that your general will not have a ward save. and you will need to be playing higher point games to fit in your level 4 with full gear as well.

For the 15 points I would suggest the other tricksters shard.
As odd as it might sound charmed shield would also be a good investment just to keep you safe from that character killer spell/cannon shot. Nothing really useful with the last 10 points though.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Bellowers or standard bearers?

« on: May 30, 2012, 08:16:49 PM »

Quote from: newsun on May 30, 2012, 08:03:29 PM

muso -> std -> champ in that order for any unit I build. Typically with ogres, 6 or less = muso, maybe std. 7+ muso+std, probably champ.

That's how I roll.

Basially this 100%.

Muso gives you better movement (swift reforms) and better rally chance if you break.
Standards give you +1 to winning combat (think of this is one extra wound)
Champ gives you +1 attack (assume you hit on 4s and wound on 4s this means that you will get +1 combat res, the same as a banner, every 4 rounds)

So Muso is best for getting you into combat and keeping you on the table
Standard is best for helping win combats
Champs are ok at helping you win combat, but their big bonus is accepting challenges from super tooled up characters like stigion ghoul kings that your characters can not handle. If you aren't fighting super killy characters or you don't have a character in the unit, there really isn't much benefit.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: The deadliest SM!

« on: May 30, 2012, 07:14:43 PM »

My main list focuses on snipereaters and deat, grut's and greedy.

Grut's helps ensure that caress gets off and sniper eaters are there simply to pick off wounds on heros as they approach and then wreck face in CC.

by surgically removing magic and leadership from your opponent (lvl 4, bsb, and then general) games become much more manageable. I only use Grut's to remove the level 4's ability to cast, no need to risk the general after that. And I almost never cast purple sun (don't want it to back fire on me).

My standard characters are:
Death, Grut's & Greedy
BSB, runemaw
Butcher lvl1 with scroll
Firebelly lvl2 with Hellheart

I hate the magic phase, so I remove it.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: The deadliest SM!

« on: May 30, 2012, 06:33:26 PM »

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=24634.0

good discussion on heaven's if you are interested in it.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: The deadliest SM!

« on: May 30, 2012, 06:27:21 PM »

My favorite is

Death, Grut's Sickle and greedy fist

Assuming you don't have the points for that I prefer

Maw, Greedy fist, Fencer's and Glittering Scales

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Yhetees: Yes or No?

« on: May 30, 2012, 06:09:33 PM »

I think of people took the unit more seriously and thus it had more exposure people would see that the unit is actually very good. The thing that Grey Templar's analysis doesn't expand upon is those 7 wounds means 6 less attacks out of a unit. This can heavily tip a combat.

I've been using them for about 3 months consistantly and for me, they take a high priority in my list than everything but my lord and associated entourage.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Ice Age Ogres

« on: May 28, 2012, 06:45:43 AM »

What point size are you thinking of? For a themed list like this a hunter on the stonehorn would be very appropriate and reasonably survivable, but be aware you are going to have to sacrafice some of our very good character support to fit this in.

what would be particularly awesome theme wise though like I said you probably won't have the points would be:

Hunter on stone horn
2 firebellies

2 bigger blocks of ogres
trappers to fill core

4 Yhetees
3 saber tusk

scrap launcher (not black powder so i'm assuming it's ok)
Thunder tusk

No idea points size for this off the top of my head but I think it would look pretty fantastic on the table. Compared to other ogre list this would considerably toned down.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Yhetees: Yes or No?

« on: May 27, 2012, 04:21:25 AM »

I run them, but only in a deathfist list. They really shine against units that are susceptible to fear, this makes them good on a flank or in a position where your opponent doesn't have a the LD bubble or rerolls.

MEs with vanguard/scout and poison out perform them but you are only working with 175 pts and can't get the bodies needed.

The firebelly is my favorite option of the alternatives listed in the thread so far as it is universally useful. Depending on your list more bodies may be a bit of a waste.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Why does everyone like the Rune Maw?

« on: May 24, 2012, 05:40:20 PM »

Runemaw is a solid choice for BSB in the second row in a very point heavy unit, no it doesn't protect from everything but it can protect from very important things.

It's about the cost % of savings. Think of the Iron curse Icon, it only protects from warmachines and in many games will do nothing but at 5 pts is a solid choice. Runemaw protects from 40% of the spells out there (doesn't stop vortexes or augments) is that protection worth the points? If your in a 8 man squad ... probably not if your in an 18 man squad with multiple characters probably.

I think one of the things people get caught up on is that some of the big unit killer spells like PoS and PS aren't affected by this banner, but they are indirectly. It means you KNOW which spells your opponent is going to throw at you so you know where to save your dice for, and investing in the banner still hasn't negatively impacted you any more than other choices in magic gear would because nothing you can buy is going to change that spell going off on straight dice.

It does however mean that if he fails to cast that spell he can not hex you afterwards. He might have to put himself into position for that unit killer spell and end up sacrificing the positioning needed to have a meaningful impact with his other spells. Maybe he won't be out of position but what have you lost by bringing it 60 pts of magic gear that would otherwise be spent on what? protecting the bruiser who can't be trageted or increasing his attack power when he's usually hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s anyways.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Magic: Which lore do you take

« on: May 23, 2012, 05:55:13 PM »

Universally my vote has to go to fire.

1) auto wounding cannons and guts are very powerful
2) Answers 'regen' this can be a pretty universal type of issue from hydras, lore of life, trollguts, trolls and the like, regen is likely to pop more than once
3) good at cleaning chaff out of the way. Yes you can dedicate other shooting to this purpose but generally speaking it is most point efficent coming from a firebelly
4) Ogres list as a whole benefit heavily from the above mentioned.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Ironsides tactics corner

« on: May 22, 2012, 04:55:11 PM »

Making core on the dot. I could buy another unit but then i'd have to pay an extra 25 pts more to give them trappers. And a muso, with that many bodies I feel that swift reforms will be important.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Ironsides tactics corner

« on: May 22, 2012, 04:18:40 PM »

Having been playing WE MSU for the past 6 months or so now this actually sounds like a lot of fun to me. and sadly enough, I actually have enough gnoblars to do this. Maybe at our next tourney i'll gnoblar out.

Need to hammer it out but something like:

Slaughtermaster, lvl4, Scroll, Lore of The Great Maw - 310 Pts.

Bruiser, Ironfist, HA, BSB - 138 Pts.

11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.
11 Gnoblars, M, Gnoblar Trappers - 62.5 Pts.

6 Maneaters, HA, 6 x Brace of Ogre Pistols, Poisoned Attacks, Stubborn, M, S, Lookout Gnoblar - 421 Pts.
6 Leadbelchers, M - 268 Pts.
6 Leadbelchers, M - 268 Pts.

Ironblaster - 170 Pts.
Ironblaster - 170 Pts.
Gnoblar Scraplauncher - 130 Pts.

Total: 2500

Could be really entertaining to play. Remember trollguts and stubborn both affect gnoblars now, it's not even a guarented loss in combat, My only concern is that there simply isn't enough shooting.

If nothing else it would be entertaining.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: maneater numbers?

« on: May 17, 2012, 05:10:20 PM »

I prefer 4 scout, stubborn xhw

upgrades in order:
musician
standard + Gleaming pendent
pistols
champion

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Ogre star, or Gut star?

« on: May 16, 2012, 09:18:51 PM »

I fail to see how having a chance to reduce the number of incoming attacks from VC, TK, Lizards, Daemons, O&G, all GW infantry (which I recall reading is very prominent in certain areas) is a bad thing.

And flaming sword does the same for ogres, plus it removes regen.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Ogre star, or Gut star?

« on: May 16, 2012, 07:10:14 PM »

In line with another thread running right now.

If you did something like
lvl 4 beast, lvl 2 butcher, lvl 2 firebely, BSB
all in one unit 4 wide

You could conceivably have +2 to wound rolls (wild form, bull gorger, flaming sword) putting them on par with Ironguts damage wise, but better ini.

However as a whole I think most people on these forums prefer Ironguts for one very big reason, magic banners. +1 leadership in your generals unit is very popular, and doesn't require a specific series of events to go right in your favor to occur.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Lore of Beasts vs. heavens

« on: May 16, 2012, 06:13:44 PM »

The thing with mind razor is the armies that make effective use of it have 15-20 attacks coming out of the unit, with good weapon skill and low str, often with rerolls to hit.

So they go from hit on 3s and wound on 5s (full saves) to hit on 3s and wound on 2s (no saves).

it's a huge difference in damage out.

Savage beast in an ogre army (assuming the 3 characters frontage and the SM with fencers) will likely have you with something like:
19 attacks, hit on 3s wound on 2s no saves + supporting attacks (i'd assume iron guts here so 9 attacks that hit on 4s and wound on 2s).

The big difference between these two setups is that to reliably get savage you need beast on a level 4, which isn't something most people seem overally fond of as compared to mind razor you just need to take a level 4 shadow which is easy for many armies who can take advantage of this tactic to do since shadow as a whole is a superior lore. Also that generally speaking the mind razor units will be striking at before ogres, as such they will take reduced attacks in.

due to ogres being such beat sticks to start with savage is actually comparable (damage output wise) to mind razor on blocks of elfs/empire, assuming you don't loose a character before striking.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Grapeshot: is it worth it?

« on: May 16, 2012, 04:00:07 PM »

Quote from: rothgar13 on May 16, 2012, 03:50:23 PM

The main situation where grapeshot shines is when you had to pivot to get the target in your front arc to begin with. Otherwise, chances are you're better off charging it.

Usually this, or if it's a very high armor save target where the impact hits are unlikely to go through.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Battle magic cards?

« on: May 15, 2012, 12:38:50 AM »

http://shenafu.com/magic/cc.php quick and easy way to make your own

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Transformation of What?

« on: May 14, 2012, 09:32:04 PM »

my record was actually the first time I used the spell, I charged a spellweaver out of a unit into the flank of some dwarf warriors. Roll attacks, 6, 6, 6, 4, use breath and get 10 hits, Tstomp for 6, total wounds caused is 32. Whiping the entire unit (30 guys) and over running into his generals block. He failed to dispel it on the following turn and overkilled the general by 5 even though the unit was steadfast it failed it's leadership and I chased them down. It was pretty devastating.

Since then I think my best has been 12 wounds into a unit total. Which is much more realistic.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Transformation of What?

« on: May 14, 2012, 08:02:11 PM »

honestly, i'm in agreeance with the above.

The spell is pretty lack luster for a level 6 spell as is.
Turning into a big monster means you are now on a big monster base which means you are eating more attacks
turning into one early means you are cannonball fodder (no LoS!)
charging out of a unit by yourself is probably the safest thing to do (so you don't loose combat from the unit eating attacks), but failing that charge can leave you wide open for a world of punishment.

It's a very precises spell to use effectively and the lower tier monsters really just don't stack up.

In a do or die circumstance I would take the one with the highest STR breath weapon to get in as many auto hits as possible.

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The Feeding Grounds / Re: Transformation of What?

« on: May 14, 2012, 06:54:59 PM »

I thought I had posted in that one, but yes the mountian chimeria is the best.

4d6+1 attacks with poison and great weapon skill means an average of 15 attacks hitting on 3s with poison and good enough str that 90% of the time no armor is allowed. + Tstomp & Breath weapon.

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